To exit You comment, "Apparently you are not willing to take the stab yourself" Let me take a stab at your comment. My pen pal friend I do respect the timing of when and when not to stab. It seems some others here on this web site are enjoying their gossip. It is not for me to interfere in their fun. I can respect what they are doing as artists in their own way. This is  is not my web site. But I am sure those participating beyond Carmen and John do have inquiring minds also as well as Carmen and John. I am looking future forward to some strong conversations and new information sharing here as we have done in the past months. Exit I do agree with your point 100% about lack of modeling decriptions being offered here. After all what is NLP without new descriptions and new models? Its disappointing. By the way I was just doing some preliminary researching on this wild new topic mirror neurons. These researcher dudes from Italy brought up a good point. In order for a neuron to truly pick up and mirror another a behavior the humans must first try on theirs or others  behavior physically and probally linguistically first.  In other words you don't get the model or strategy down by just writing or reading or listening to your or others words...So to think you know what John Grinder, Carmen Bostic or Michael Carroll are doing well I cannot say that you can't or can. Of course it might be easier to try some thing on first perhaos say another identity. Or perhaps some thing easier like a new activity. H'mm... Your choice of course. real regards James