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Topic: Re:Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?
Posted by: Michael Norman
Date/Time: 14/11/2002 07:24:00

John & Carmen,

Thank you very much for your reply. It's fantastic to read your thoughts on the matter.

I don't know if you read my post in answer to Michael Carrolís post. If not, I gave an example there of a client I had who reported to me that her Ďhappy moodí had a "rosy hue" and her depressed mood had a "blue" hue. Once she became aware of this distinction, she could consciously change the hue on her visual perception and her mood changed accordingly.

This kind of example makes me believe that people experience significant transforms in (at least) the Visual system. These may or may not be occurring at the level of receptor-signal transduction, although I doubt it. Certainly, to my understanding, they are occurring pre the linguistic F2 transforms.

My clients have no conscious awareness of these phenomenon until I get them to contrast the "way the world looks" in state X with the way the world looks in state Y.

Here's another example of the many examples Iíve come across:

A very good friend of mine went overseas for a year. While there, she experienced weeks of terrible disorientation and what she reported to me as not even knowing her mothers name, her home phone number etc. To understate the fact, she felt her world was falling apart. (I can't remember the exact words she used so this my language and my distortions etc). These 'symptoms' came and went every few weeks or so. She had periods when she couldnít function close to Ďnormalí and periods where everything was Ďnormalí.

I only found out about this when she came home to Australia. She was isolated in Europe (where she was staying) because she couldnít remember how to contact her family and friends her in Australia, when in her distraught state. But she had seen psychiatrists, psychologists in Europe, and had MRI's etc done. Nothing helped. And the doctors told her to go home because nothing was wrong!

When she arrived back in Australia, she asked me to work with her.

Here's what I found out. In the disorientated-amnesic state, the world tunneled extremely. Maybe this was just a focus on foveal vision ala many altered states. But, in remembering the state, she reported her 'normal-happy' state as having much wider vision.

After she and I elicited this, I taught her to go in and out of the two states at will by varying the parameter of her width of vision internally. (Rest assured I had so pretty powerful anchors and posthypnotic suggestions to make sure I could get her out of any bad state, before I did anything!)

My main reason in giving her conscious control over transition from one state to the other was to reinforce to her that she wasnít crazy and she didnít have any supposed mental illness (which is, to me, a stupid concept).

I then used trance to automate the change work. The way I did this was to get her unconscious to identify the cues that occurred just before she consciously experienced any symptoms. Then to automatically chain these cues to the choices she needed.

(As an aside: I elicited the distinctions between states just because I was interested in how it all worked. I did find it very thought provoking to read about the latrogenic principle In Whispers! Itís something Iíll post about once I get the time to think about and experiment with.)

So, what Iím saying is that I find that submodality distinctions most definitely occur externally as well as internally.

Ie: between to very distinct and powerful states, state X and state Y, there is a shift in the visual, auditory, or kineasthetic representation of the external world... independent of linguistic filters. Note: I havenít at all searched for K changes... I havenít asked people if the their sense of touch changes :) Iíll ask next time I come across a similar situation. Who knows if Iíll find anything, but itíll be fun!

Hereís an example of an auditory change I noticed that I experience:

The world actually sounds slightly different to me when I'm "itís a great day state" vs a "bad day state". What happens is that I can hear lower frequencies more fully when Iím in the state that letís me know itís going to be a great state. To add to my limited F2 description, my hearing is more full when Iím in a good state. I know that, people, as a generalization, become more internally focused when they feel bad. (Obviously there are exceptions to this).But I donít know if the changed to what I hear are attention related (just listening more or less) or actual transforms.

By the way, hereís how I noticed the changes. I anchored each state and as I was walking to the bus stop (this was a couple of years ago when I was at university), I played with the anchors with the express purpose of noticing what happened to senses in my outside world. Like my clients, it was the contrast that alerted me.

So you may be right with my cricketer client that he does "suspension of a learned program called size constancy". But I've noticed that a lot of significant state change have associated visual/auditory changes in the external world.

Anyway, this post is long so I better end up.

Thanks again for taking the time to write your brilliant book! Youíve got me thinking a lot!

All the best,


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?11/11/2002 07:17:08Michael Norman
     Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?13/11/2002 02:41:11Michael Carroll
          Re:Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?13/11/2002 06:36:01Michael Norman
     Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?13/11/2002 17:29:03John Grinder
          Re:Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?14/11/2002 02:05:51Robert
               Re:Re:Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?16/11/2002 17:50:35John Grinder
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?22/11/2002 13:24:42Robert
          Re:Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?14/11/2002 07:24:00Michael Norman
               Re:Re:Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?20/11/2002 16:42:38John Grinder
          Re:Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?14/11/2002 14:36:39Jon Edwards
               Re:Re:Re:Epistemology And Modeling - An Extension To The F1-FA-F2 model?14/11/2002 22:44:22ernest

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