Clive We are almost there (that is, up to the next step) now. Agreed, stale cake is horrible and what a waste! I can confirm in my personal experience that strange and wonderful point where my hands are possessed and I am simply amazed by what they are doing and haven't a clue where they are going next. Like you, my biggest difficulty was to keep from cracking up laughing so as not to interrupt their playing. Interesting form of disassociation and only one of many strategy for playing. You write, "As for modelling distant or dead people - I think I see the issue: Loss of cybernetic loop and therefore loss of context within which the stimulus and/or response occur. Modelling in a vacuum. However, do you refer to video/audio in an external or internal perspective. ...that is can you effectively model from previous experience and connection with someone or is it more appropriate that they are "live" and in front of you at the time?" I think that I did not commicate my point adequately - the real barrier to modeling people who you have never seen preforming in context is the absence of context and in particular, that portion of context which offers you access to the responses that the model is eliciting in his or her audience, group, individual. This portion of context is crucial (given our definition of NLP modeling in Whispering) as it is the only way to effectively imitate your model and know whether you are closing on replicating their performance. The alternative would be some complex computation involving consciousness which is absolutely antithetical to the process of modeling without f2 filters. Finally, you write, "So, as for DTI, how can the motion between between where you currently are and where you want to be effectively utilised for deep change work?" Life is deep trance - act now! John