Hi Lee Your description is pretty close to what we had in mind. Let us attempt to make somewhat more precise what the issue is. You correctly identify the difficult case as being in third and attending exclusively to f1 experience. First we note that the issue of whether one is attending uniquely to f1 or f1/f2 filtered experience is independent of the issue of whether the content of what you are attending to is represented in the data stream. By the phrase in the data stream we are pointing at features of our experience that have an external world referent or trigger. In other words, you can hallucinate in either state -that when attending to f1 only or a combination of f1/f2 filters. If I am attending to an image of myself from a clean 3rd and exclusively to that image and its surrounding physical environment, as you menton, I am in 3rd attending to f1 filtered experience. If I now begin to describe verbally what I note the image of myself doing, I have introduced the f2 filters and am attending in 3rd to f1/f2 filtered experience. If we read your posting properly, this is quite close to what you proposed. To us, the interesting point of your posting was that you cleanly make the distinction between what's in the data stream (has a trigger or referent in the external world) and its independance from the issue of f1 or f1/f2 filters. All the best, Carmen and John