J Rose, Thanks for that post.  It helped me get some things straight about all this logical level, logical type talk going on around here. I really like how grinder and st. claire go over it in their book. Really, their distinctions make a big difference for me.  And while I understand how they apply THEIR critisim to Robert Dilt's model, i don't quite think it fair, considering some of the points you made.  If Robert chose to adopt their tidier articulation, he would have to change his language quite a bit, but I don't see why he would need to when his justifications for using the words he does also make sense (even though they have elements of what you call 'muddledness'). Also, and you can email me at the above address to respond to this, but my neighbors step-son, Mark (22 years old) has always been a very eccentric boy. Some people have thought him autistic or aspergers, but he really doesn't meet nearly enough of the DSM IV's criteria for either condition; he's always been very quite, yet with a wisdom that goes well beyond his years.  About 2 weeks ago Mark told his step-dad, Ron, that he could 'see meaningful images' and that it just really started happening this year.  He is now demonstrating to Ron what he means by this and it is dumbfounding.  Mostly he is picking up profound information about people who he hardly knows or doesn't know at all, but sometimes it's even funny. Like the other day when Ron got home from work, Mark said, with a smile "You shouldn't have had the green salsa, huh?" Ron couldn't believe it because his stomache was killing him because he had accidently ordered a burrito and forgot to nix the green stuff, which hadn't happened in a long time.  that's a silly example, but I don't have the time to go into what is developing on a more serious note.  So, we are looking for multiple descriptions of psychic experiences and I would like to add you to our list of map makers, if you would be so kind.  The way in which you relate this type of phenomena to logical typing and levels would be facinating for me to read and, perhaps, helpful to Ron; but let me stress, Ron is doing fine. In fact, he told Mark recently that he was pretty sure he knew why this was beginning to happen and what he was suppose to do about it. So I ask out of curiosity and an interest in gaining multiple perceptual positions on the subject. I already have and know all the sets of descriptions that would see Ron as doing 'cold readings' or that every time he get exact images on a new person it is just selective attention that accounts for the impeccable congruence between his image and the actual events of the person's life.  Those descriptions are utterly useless in this context (I mean, how many people grew up trying to get milk out of their Grandpa's broken hammer set!); maybe if he starts trying to make money off of this and get very vauge...but... Anyway, I think your epistemological distinctions and applications of NLP in this context might be helpful for me and, maybe, Ron.  Thanks Tammy