Yea, I guess Robert is just always giving John so much to be upset about.  When you hear how Robert gushes in praise of John, it's just frustrating to read so many posts on here where John takes his little baby stabs at Robert.  Robert always dedicates each of his book to John and Richard with kind words, but I guess Robert also likes to tell lies about what Dr. Grinder said. Why would Robert remember john saying something that john doesn't remember saying. I think I'll email Robert and get to the bottom of this.  You know, the way vibe that John generates with so many people on this list is plain upsetting. He's so fu$%ing defensive and arrogant about it all.  Have you guys ever had a discussion with Dilts?  Regardless of what you think about each and very detail of his thought, the guy showers respect and curiosity at you.  I'm going to ask him why he would dare suggest that Grinder ever said anything like that awful quote above. Z