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Topic: Re:3rd Position, Coach, Controller, Meta-Position
Posted by: John Grinder and Carmen Bostic
Date/Time: 23/08/2002 23:16:22

Hi Gene

You observe,

"What I find interesting is that 3rd position in old code was used or explored very little."

No, we disagree that 3rd position was used infrequently in the classic code - what is accurate is that the use of 3rd position was NOT well-coded by Bandler and me (JG) in the classic code thereby creating the impression that it was infrequently used.

Take any anchoring format, for example, after rapport, the most typical move by the agent of change is to take the client to a 3rd position to determine what is to be changed (see the critique of the difficulties created by assigning the conscious part of the client the responsibility for certain acts in Whispering - especially, chapter 2 of part II).  This is a 3rd, pure and simple.

You offer two descriptions,

"...uses 3rd position to chain 1st and 2nd position states together"


"...taking fear of a context, moving to 3rd position of that context, and reanchoring the state which occurs during the 3rd position to the original context."

If anyone actually did either of these things, the results would be a disaster. To chain (or attempt to chain) 1st and 2nd position is incoherent - 1st and 2nd position are, by definition, seperate and to connect them through anchoring is to defeat precisely their purpose. To anchor a state achieved in 3rd and re-insert it into the original context is to ignore logical levels (a well-formedness violation) and destroy the utility of the 3rd involved (perhaps here we have the apparent need by Hall to generate ever increasing levels of so-called meta states as he contaminates the original 3rd). Such a move would also ensure that the state so inserted will not be responsive to what is occurring in the original context - you would be anchoring a disassociation. Remember, one of the explicit criteria for an effective 3rd is that the person in 3rd position has strong kinesthetics but they are the kinesthetics selected during the construction of the 3rd and are, by definition, independent of the kinesthetic responses originally made in context.

Gene, the answer to your last question,

" John or Carmen, how do either of you use exploring 3rd position in the modelling process or in applying new code?

is in Whispering itself - see especially Contexts of Discovery and The New Code sections.

All the best,

John and Carmen

Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
3rd Position, Coach, Controller, Meta-Position22/08/2002 18:40:55Gene Bryson
     Re:3rd Position, Coach, Controller, Meta-Position23/08/2002 23:16:22John Grinder and Carmen Bostic
          Re:Re:3rd Position, Coach, Controller, Meta-Position25/08/2002 17:13:59Gene Bryson

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