Forum Message

Topic: Re:the 3rd AI debate and non-human interests. topic: epistemologyðics.
Posted by: Pete West
Date/Time: 03/11/2003 13:41:22


Hello nj,

You wrote,

"...given evidence that chimps and apes have F2 filters, one can conclude that chimps and apes are capable of experiencing suffering and pain."

I do not need evidence of f2 filters to make that conclusion nj...also the experience of pleasure and pain seem to me to be phenomena more closely associated with the set of neurological transforms (the set f1).

"A debate, in AI, about whether non-humans exhibit intelligence..."

As you will recall, I wrote, '...concerns the extent to which representations are necessary...'.  It is obvious to me that non-humans exhibit intelligence.

"Pete, do you think an appreciation of non-human intelligence ought to bring about a system of ethics that weighs non-human interests along with human interests?"

Yes.

"Would the ability to go second-position with (non-)humans assist such a development?"

As I understand the activity of 'going second-position', yes.

"Should humans only go second-position with other humans?"

I can't speak for each and every member of the set of humans.  To satisfy my personal outcomes, it would behoove me to 'go second-position' with both humans and non-humans alike.

"Discussion of animal f2-filter presence/absence is in gross contrast to the reality of nonhumans tortured by humans."

Who said anything about torturing non-humans and how does torturing nonhumans contrast grossly with discussion of f2 filter presence/abscence?

"Be aware that a human rights activist might confront someone who starts discussing rationales for or against the possibility of nonhuman consciousness."

I'm aware that a human rights activist may have just confronted me.  I fail to sense the utility of that awareness.

-Pet Waste

Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 08:24:18Pete West
     Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 09:25:24Lewis Walker
          Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 09:45:24Pete West
          Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 09:55:11Pete West
               Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 10:06:07Lewis Walker
          the 3rd AI debate and non-human interests. topic: epistemologyðics.;03/11/2003 10:23:46nj
               Re:the 3rd AI debate and non-human interests. topic: epistemologyðics.03/11/2003 13:41:22Pete West
                    Re:Re:the 3rd AI debate and non-human interests. topic: epistemologyðics.03/11/2003 22:58:49nj
                         Re:Re:Re:the 3rd AI debate and non-human interests. topic: epistemologyðics.03/11/2003 23:16:04nj
                         Re:Re:Re:the 3rd AI debate and non-human interests. topic: epistemologyðics.04/11/2003 00:44:49Pete West
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:the 3rd AI debate and non-human interests. topic: epistemologyðics.05/11/2003 00:34:09nj
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:the 3rd AI debate and non-human interests. topic: epistemologyðics.05/11/2003 03:05:24Pet Waste
                                   Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues05/11/2003 07:17:07Pete West
                                        Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues05/11/2003 09:45:29Pete West
                                             Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues (typo)05/11/2003 11:17:05Pete West
                                             Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues07/11/2003 00:44:00nj
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues07/11/2003 02:34:02Pete West
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues07/11/2003 22:33:07nj
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues08/11/2003 00:51:02Pete West
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues08/11/2003 02:51:53Pete West
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues08/11/2003 08:41:40nj
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues09/11/2003 10:19:15Pete West
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues17/11/2003 23:15:33nj
                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues19/11/2003 13:04:40Pete West
                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues19/11/2003 19:49:44nj
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues20/11/2003 03:04:11Pete West
                                                                                               :Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential 20/11/2003 04:20:44Ryan N
                                                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues20/11/2003 20:55:23nj
                                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues21/11/2003 02:28:21Pete West
                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues21/11/2003 09:16:11nj
                                                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues25/11/2003 13:11:56Pete West
                                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* sub topic: potential ethical issues25/11/2003 21:29:45nj
     Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* (definitions continued)03/11/2003 12:50:47Pete West
          Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* (definitions continued)03/11/2003 13:20:26Jon Edwards
               Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* (definitions continued)03/11/2003 22:48:34Pete West
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* (definitions continued)03/11/2003 23:11:27nj
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* (definitions continued)04/11/2003 00:48:27Pete West
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate* (definitions continued)04/11/2003 01:56:13Jon Edwards
     Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 13:59:04John Schertzer
          Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 14:16:02Pete West
               Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*05/11/2003 22:58:43Pete West
          Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 15:11:28GSM
               Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 20:37:31John Schertzer
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 22:58:25Pete West
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 12:57:20GSM
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 13:16:39Jon Edwards
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 14:24:42GSM
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 14:57:57Jon Edwards
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 15:22:14GSM
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 15:45:34John Schertzer
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 15:57:40GSM
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 18:48:04John Schertzer
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 19:35:52GSM
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 23:05:51Pete West
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 23:44:14GSM
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*05/11/2003 02:48:08Pete West
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 17:18:57Martin Messier
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 20:29:38John Schertzer
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*16/11/2003 02:57:43Martin Messier
     Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 16:53:25Venus Brown
          Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*03/11/2003 22:34:01Pete West
               Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 01:07:01Michael Carroll
                    Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 05:17:14Ryan Nagy
                         Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 08:35:14George
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 16:22:30George
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*04/11/2003 17:54:31John Grinder
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*06/11/2003 04:46:35Ryan Nagy
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*09/11/2003 16:29:12John Grinder
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*07/11/2003 19:02:18John Schertzer
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*07/11/2003 22:23:48nj
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*02/12/2003 11:57:01Pete West
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*02/12/2003 13:49:51John Schertzer
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*06/11/2003 04:55:41Ryan Nagy
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*08/11/2003 03:36:05George
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*20/11/2003 09:29:08Pete West
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*08/11/2003 08:52:42nj
                         Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*14/11/2003 13:35:06Jon Edwards
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*19/11/2003 00:23:53Ryan Nagy
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*19/11/2003 19:50:26John Schertzer
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*20/11/2003 10:05:14John Grinder
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*20/11/2003 15:09:33John Schertzer
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*20/11/2003 21:26:31nj
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*20/11/2003 10:00:24John Grinder
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*21/11/2003 01:11:21Ryan Nagy
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*21/11/2003 08:32:28John Grinder
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*24/11/2003 15:17:50Ryan Nagy
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*25/11/2003 10:07:07John Grinder
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*25/11/2003 12:09:27GSM
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*21/11/2003 08:53:08nj
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*24/11/2003 15:20:58Ryan Nagy
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*25/11/2003 20:49:23nj
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*25/11/2003 23:28:31nj
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Epistemology: f1, f2 and the 3rd AI debate*21/11/2003 17:12:28John Schertzer

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