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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!
Posted by: John Schertzer
Date/Time: 01/12/2003 17:01:58

GSM,
I guess my point would be that the idea of First Access has it backwards.  F1 and F2 are of the same structure, and are systemically generative, while the states that have been associated with FA (modeling or know-nothing state, for instance) are not primary, but are closer in structure to *punctuation* than to an absence of lingistic characteristics. 

I've long held the conviction that things like samadhi or the "beginners mind" of zen, are not in fact primary experiences, but constructed experiences, as is the know-nothing state.  What John attributes to pure FA is not first access, but *special* access.  Again, it's an experience that involves puncuation, and is essential an aesthetic act.

I've been thinking more about this since looking (shallowly) into cognitive grammar.  One of the tenets of cog g is that syntactical structure is a result of phonological structure.  If that's so, there is an implication there that language is not a special case, but part of sensory filtering and therefore part of primary experience after all (I know, Freud would have me shot for saying this, and I know that John would heartily disagree, but this is where I'm at [in my tiny theorist's mind ;-)]).

Think about it.



Best,
JS

Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms20/11/2003 16:47:53GSM
     Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms20/11/2003 18:52:44John Schertzer
          Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms20/11/2003 20:53:18GSM
               Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms20/11/2003 21:00:58John Schertzer
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms20/11/2003 21:19:48GSM
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms20/11/2003 21:59:53John Schertzer
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms20/11/2003 22:33:48GSM
                                   Whoops!21/11/2003 01:42:05GSM
                                        Re:Whoops!21/11/2003 16:55:17John Schertzer
                                             Re:Re:Whoops!21/11/2003 19:24:15GSM
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Whoops!21/11/2003 19:49:22John Schertzer
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!21/11/2003 20:07:34GSM
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!21/11/2003 21:30:05John Schertzer
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!21/11/2003 23:34:12GSM
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!24/11/2003 15:55:11John Schertzer
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!24/11/2003 16:31:20GSM
                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!24/11/2003 16:59:27Robert Ballentine
                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!24/11/2003 17:34:55John Schertzer
                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!24/11/2003 17:33:33John Schertzer
                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!25/11/2003 13:42:55GSM
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!25/11/2003 15:27:02John Schertzer
                                                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!25/11/2003 17:08:53GSM
                                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!25/11/2003 18:56:32John Schertzer
                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!25/11/2003 21:46:57nj
                                                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!25/11/2003 21:58:05John Schertzer
                                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!25/11/2003 23:37:17nj
                                                                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!26/11/2003 00:31:54nj
                                                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!01/12/2003 17:33:58John Schertzer
                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!26/11/2003 11:00:50GSM
                                                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!01/12/2003 17:01:58John Schertzer
                                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!02/12/2003 14:37:23GSM
                                                                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!02/12/2003 18:09:46John Schertzer
                                                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!02/12/2003 20:16:11GSM
                                                                                                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!02/12/2003 21:27:37John Schertzer
                                                                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!02/12/2003 23:05:28GSM
                                                                                                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!03/12/2003 14:17:31John Schertzer
                                                                                                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!03/12/2003 15:27:57GSM
                                                                                                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!03/12/2003 17:55:56John Schertzer
                                                                                                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!03/12/2003 19:27:34GSM
                                                                                                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!03/12/2003 20:48:44John Schertzer
                                                                                                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!03/12/2003 23:01:00GSM
                                                                                                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!04/12/2003 14:30:07John Schertzer
                                                                                                                                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!04/12/2003 14:49:02GSM
                                                                                                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!04/12/2003 02:39:11Pete West
                                                                                                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!04/12/2003 09:37:19GSM
                                                                                                                                                                               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!04/12/2003 10:02:20Pete West
                                                                                                                                                                                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!04/12/2003 14:37:13John Schertzer
                                                                                                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!03/12/2003 13:33:18Pete West
                                                                                                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!03/12/2003 14:21:11John Schertzer
                                                                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!04/12/2003 10:38:03Pete West
                                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Whoops!02/12/2003 21:43:18J Rose
          Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms20/11/2003 20:55:04Lewis Walker
               Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms21/11/2003 02:23:09Dr Waterson
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms21/11/2003 08:08:00JPG
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms21/11/2003 09:40:36Robert Ballentine
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms21/11/2003 11:24:37nj
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms21/11/2003 11:42:55nj
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms22/11/2003 00:57:28Pete West
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms22/11/2003 04:32:53nj
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms23/11/2003 14:22:26Mark Johnson
               Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms01/12/2003 04:34:30Martin Messier
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms01/12/2003 19:34:03Rebecca Wilson
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms01/12/2003 19:50:39Lewis Walker
                         Re:Relevancy 03/12/2003 00:34:19Michael Carroll
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hall's Meta-States, Andreas' Summary Reps and f2 transforms03/12/2003 01:56:34kc

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