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Topic: Re:choice vs. control
Posted by: John Grinder
Date/Time: 03/12/2003 19:18:04


So, the proposition that one can "control" X contains the presupposition that there is a Cause Effect relationship between the controller and the controllee (sorry). As we stated in Whispering, Cause Effect relationships are strictly limited to physical systems and in that domain, they are useful fictions and allow valuable behaviors such as prediction...

Re-read the Bateson-inspired metaphor about kicking the ball and kicking the dog.

Living systems are not subject to Cause Effect relationships. Indeed, the art of the applications of NLP is precisely to identify those contexts in which the client (oneself, for example) experiences no choice (in other words, the client is behaving as if a Cause Effect relationship obtains and to use the various patterns of excellence we have coded in NLP applications to generate and integrate choices so as to escape the poverty of experience in such contexts - that is, to behave congruently with the rules that govern living system interactions rather than fall prey to accepting the physical systems relationships of Cause and Effect.

The sole exception to the best of my knowledge is, of course, when a physical force impigns on me physically, for that duration, I am subject to the physics of Cause and Effect.

As to what other models there are, have a look at the literature of NLP. 90% (roughly) of the printed material on NLP (books, in particular) are a ad nauseum re-hash or trivial variations on the original patterns coded by Bandler and me - there are some additional brilliant pieces on offer - good hunting.

Caution - be alert to detect and dismiss those works that fail to respect the boundary conditions (such as respecting the distinction in the context of professional change between content and process) but insist (unethically from my point of view) on passing themselves off as NLP and the especially absurd reader digest NLP - insulting to both the reader and the co-creators of NLP. They are welcome to propose any pattern, content or process they want - my request is that they create their own name for it and not mislead the public by attempting to cash in on the effectiveness of NLP by inappropriately labeling their work as NLP.

Good hunting,


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
choice vs. control03/12/2003 12:45:12Erik
     Re:choice vs. control03/12/2003 19:18:04John Grinder
          Re:Re:choice vs. control04/12/2003 13:19:32Erik
          Re:Re:choice vs. control04/12/2003 18:52:37chris
               Re:Re:Re:choice vs. control04/12/2003 20:42:23zhizhichien

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