Good stuff! a note: i said it is a behavior that many other people characterize as unlearnable, not that I believed it was unlearnable- this was said just to emphasize the degree to which the behavior is outstanding. OK, so what do you do after you have done Y for a good long time and you are aware of exactly how far you are from still capturing X. You've absorbed as much as you can (this is a presuppostion, but it is exactly the one that begs my question, "how to improve Y") and still are not getting it.  At some point I imagine there are strategies that help to gain deeper, boader more useful access to X... Here is a question. Suppose I grew up in a culture and for some reason I was not exposed to context in which mathematics were taught.  I am very educated, well read and whtaever, but just no math.  Now, I see some man making lists of numbers and then doing things to them that produce new numbers which have special relationships to the originals. For instance, I see him write down the number 5 and then another 5 and then he does what he calls "multiplying" to them and comes up with the number 25.  He tells me that 25 has a special relation to those two numbers in the context of 'multiplying'. I am fascinated by the possibility that he could be correct and I like that he gets paid to do such magic.  Now I want to model him. Of course, I will not get caught up in the mistake of talking to him and getting him consciously involved with the project, so I'll follow your definition of Y: """"Y = Unconscious uptake. Y also equals Doing, Acting "As if", Performing, Breathing, Mimicking, Copying, Replicating, and Micro-muscle matching all of the fine details of the original models behaviours/skills (to be captured). So to answer your question. You do Y, by doing X. Not "watching" X, not reading descriptions of X, not talking to Carl about X, not even taking notes about Carl doing X. Just do X, to the best of your ability until you can achieve X. Focus ONLY on capturing/replicating the target behaviour, (with any necessary arrangements in place for personal ecology etc.)"""" how will I learn mathmatics this way; his breathing and movements and sequences of activity might give me access to inner states that are very helpful, but how will I actually capture what I am after (his excellence at producing the correct results) by following this method. I can imagine that much of Dilt's work on modeling would help me begin to unpack the necessary access points via questions directed to relevent 'problem space', but I don't understand how doing Y could capture what I am after in such a modeling context. sorry for the leangth, but thanks very much for your time. ken