John and Carmen, Please accept the following proof of sorts to allow you both deeper insight into my thought processes. I don't believe the ultimate question at the end is contained in WITW at all. If so, please direct me to it. I must have missed it. ------- Premise(A1): All communication interactions have 3 attendant perceptual positions. Premise(B1): "Meta position is a position that is meta with respect to something." (JG/CBSC) Premise(C1): A position that is meta with respect to something is a position different than the position or viewpoint belonging to the thing being observed. Conclusion(A1,B1): Meta position lies within a separate perceptual position than the original position within which the meta perspective is about. ------- Premise(A2): Reflexivity is equivalent to self-awareness. Premise(B2): Self-awareness presupposes sense of self-concept. Premise(C2): Self-concept is derived from communication feedback loops within the modalities (strategies). Conclusion(A2,B2,C2): Reflexivity or self-awareness exists where there are communication feedback loops within the modalities. Conclusion Contrapositive(A2,B2,C2): Reflexivity does not occur where there is no communication feedback loops within the modalities. -------- Premise(A3): 2nd perceptual position is viewing yourself as a disassociated entity without simultaneous access to internal dialogue of the 1st perceptual position. Premise(B3): 2nd perceptual position is viewing yourself as a disassociated entity with access to internal kinesthetics of the 1st perceptual position. (Source: Doctor/nurse 2nd position prognosis exercise by JG/CBSC) Premise(C3): 2nd perceptual position is viewing yourself as a disassociated entity without simultaneous visual access to observations of 1st perceptual position. Conclusion(A3,B3,C3 + A2,B2,C2): 2nd perceptual position has no simultaneous access to modalities of 1st position except for kinesthetics and, therefore, is not reflexive. ------- Premise(A4) (Conclusion(A1,B1)): Meta position lies within a separate perceptual position than the original position within which the meta perspective is about. Premise(B4) (Conclusion(A2,B2,C2)): 2nd perceptual position has no simultaneous access to modalities of 1st position except for kinesthetics. Conclusion(A4,B4): Meta position in 2nd perceptual position has no simultaneous access to modalities of 1st position except for kinesthetics. ------- Premise(A5): 3rd perceptual position is viewing yourself and another person while having simultaneous access to your own 1st position kinesthetics. Premise(B5): 3rd perceptual position is viewing yourself and another person while having simultaneous access to your own 1st position internal dialogue including but not limited to presuppositions, beliefs, values, etc.. Conclusion(A5,B5) 3rd perceptual position has simultaneous access to modalities of 1st position including kinesthetics and internal dialogue (beliefs, etc.). -------- Premise(A6)(Conclusion A1,B1)): Meta position lies within a separate perceptual position than the original position within which the meta perspective is about. Premise(B6)(Conclusion A5,B5): 3rd perceptual position has simultaneous access to modalities of 1st position including kinesthetics and internal dialogue (beliefs, etc.). Premise(C6)(Conclusion A2,B2,C2): Reflexivity or self-awareness exists where there are communication feedback loops within the modalities. Conclusion(A6,B6,C6): Meta position within 3rd perceptual position is reflexive because one has access to 1st position modalities including kinesthetics and internal dialogue (beliefs, etc.) -------- Premise(A6): 3rd perceptual position requires observation of the interaction between 1st position self and another. Premise(B6): 2nd perceptual position requires complete disassociation from self-concept or reflexivity. Premise(C6): Six step reframing requires taking a meta-position to *only* your own polarities to access new choices in behavior. Conclusion(C6): Meta-position in the process of 6 step reframing takes place in another perceptual position other than 1st, 2nd or 3rd perceptual position. --------- Issue: Whether the meta-position to *only* oneself exists and, if so, which perceptual position does it derive its 'meta' from? In other words, which house contains *the* room...right? All the best, Gene Bryson