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Topic: Re:Ecology of Emergence
Posted by: John Grinder
Date/Time: 25/05/2004 17:34:32


Here are a couple of comments that you might consider that I sense are distinct from what you posted:

1. You wrote

"...we obviously have no direct control over what emerges as a consequence of "parts or components" interacting

I recommend that you have a look at the sections on Ashby's Law of Requisite Variety and Dilts' so-called Neurological Levels with respect to the issues of control. These are critiques of the possibility of control in complex systems that are at a quite distinct logical level from that focused on in the Step/Emergence paper. 

In an emergent phenomenon - at present, by definition, not only can we not control what emerges, we can't even know prior to its emergence what will occur.

2. I certainly agree with your point that the development and refinement of skills to explore possibilities increases choice - however, it is equally clear to me that precisely because of emergence, we can't "explore each possibility".

3. You wrote,

"If an individual is aware of his/her dependence on the systems that sustain him/her then there is a greater likelihood that his/her behaviour will be action chosen after ecological consideration"

I agree with the spirit of the comment - I would insist on "interdependence" as an appropriate name for the relationship you refer to rather than dependence.

4. You wrote,

"His/her influence on Mind, then, will increase the likelihood of an emergent phenomenon; a coherent, high technology culture"

This is a statistical statement ("likelihood") and seens entirely out of place in a discussion of emergence. Further, I get the impression (perhaps erroneously) that you are entertaining the notion that we can influence whether there is the emergent phenomenon with certain characteristics (high technology...). This is interesting as it points at an investigation of the conditions under which emergence occurs - consider, for example, the starting conditions or truth tables or other changes in the set-up of any particular e42 configurations - some lead to emergent phenomena, others not. To me, this is a key issue. We are a long way from being able to do this but the question can be refined using tools such as e42.


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Ecology of Emergence25/05/2004 06:51:56Keith
     Re:Ecology of Emergence25/05/2004 13:40:24Amiclar
          Re:Re:Ecology of Emergence - the link works fine25/05/2004 16:10:26spiff
     Re:Ecology of Emergence25/05/2004 17:34:32John Grinder
          I'd like to ask you a question.27/05/2004 19:40:08nj
               Re:I'd like to ask you a question.27/05/2004 20:35:41e_lie
          Re:Re:Ecology of Emergence27/05/2004 21:44:48Michael Carroll

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