Dr. Grinder, In addition to RedTail Math, Patterns of the Hypnotic Techniques of Milton Erickson, M.D. volume III  and Neuro-Linguistic Programming volume II (described on p.281 of NLP vol. I), two other "forthcoming" books, co-authored by yourself, that I would love to eventually get my hands on - in the event of their publication twenty-eight years later, are Changing with Families volume II (mentioned in Bandler, Grinder and Satir, Changing with Families, 1976. p.91) and The Magic of Patterns/The Patterns of Magic (Changing with Families, 1976. p.176).  Bandler and yourself wrote that this latter work deals with an emergent "phenomenon, in which changes occur in areas of behavior not expressly dealt with in the therapeutic session...".  Respectfully, within the bulk of your co-written work with Bandler [Magic I/II and the seminar transcripts (Frogs, etc.) being exceptions], you share with him [RB] a vexing tendency to promote yet to be published books, only to later apparently drop the project.  I wonder whether or not I am witnessing a continuation of that pattern with respect to your collaboration with CBSC? However, isn't this the same strategy that good lovers and drug dealers use to increase the reponse potential of the person involved in the relationship? Perhaps RedTail Math is a useful fiction in this regard?  Thanks John, e_lie "...In my view Grinder was Chomsky’s protégé. In this time-frame NLP had largely been about modeling (soon it largely turned to franchising performance clones with a few exceptions: Grinder, Andreas, Dilts, Gordon, McWhirter and maybe more).[...]My supportive point: Grinder is a brilliant linguist! I don't use the worked brilliant loosely. There is no one on the planet whom Grinder could not model. I agree with you that claims to contrary are preposterous. So, if the person made a claim that he could not be modeled by Grinder, this tells us more about the lack of skill and understanding of the gentleman in question, than Dr. John Grinder." -Steve Lankton 04/11/04 http://behavior.net/cgi-bin/nph-display.cgi?MessageID=1920&Top;=1917&config;=ericksonian&uid;=nC1M8.user&new;=0&adm;=0 "...the modeling approach and language for modeling that was being developed from our early efforts (before it was named NLP) was and is very valuable to all people and especially therapists. NLP has changed over the years. There are so many generations from the original trainers the work may bear little resemblance to what was intended. So, you must choose your sources well. Grinder, Dilts, Andreas and a few others have my recommendation. And I'm sure there are others...I just don't know them.[...]The disturbing part of the NLP bureaucracy to me is the "certifications" and especially those that "certify" participants in Ericksonian Hypnosis. It is not unlike providing a certification in advanced nuclear physics after a five day seminar – or a 30 day seminar if you like (hey, skip the calculus, you just need to know which buttons to push on the machines!)." -Steve Lankton 02/24/04 http://behavior.net/cgi-bin/nph-display.cgi?MessageID=1883&Top;=1882&config;=ericksonian&uid;=nC1M8.user&new;=0&adm;=0