kc You are one greedy guy (take it as a compliment). To answer your questions (fine questions) would require a medium size book. Unfortunately for what you are pursuing, it not the book we are working on at this point. I pick a point in one of your larger questions and offer a brief response: "My conscious assumptions based on your previous reply here is telling me if John had built his triple description model 15 years ago when he connected with Milton he used other tools and models thirty years ago as they were pre-triple description days...So what was Johns tools 30 years ago? How has he evolved his tools the last thrty years compared to that first Milton meeting?" I suspect (and please understanid that I am speculating here) that triple description has been implicit in my behavior for many decades. You are correct that the modeling that Bandler and I did with Dr. Erickson was accomplished well before triple description was made explicit. But isn't this the same story as the history of NLP (and I would propose, the entire species), A couple of guys with a half-formed dream place themselves deliberately in a challenge for which they have no conscious clue how to respond to and simply do it. As the result of this experience and others similar, a pattern begins to emerge, dimly seen, only a echo of which is clear. Guided by (and trusting in) the unconscious, the person continues without a conscious explicit representation of what he is doing, playing with the possibilities before him. And then, one day, spurred perhaps by some half remembered fragment of distant dream, stimulated by a conversation of a colleague, surprising himself in a presentation, the tacit becomes explicit; the unconscious offers up to awareness a representation of something that person has been doing intuitively for years and presto, out of the hat comes the rabbit of explicitness. I am certain that my behavior in modeling Erickson was systematic with respect to triple description - occupying in turn each of the three privileged perceptual positions as an integral way of responding to the amazing challenge of modeling someone as complex and refined as Dr. Erickson. And I had no conscious representation at that time. All the best, John