Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology
Posted by: Juan Arce
Date/Time: 22/04/2005 13:20:55

OK John, Let's get into it

For what I know about you, you seem to enjoy formalization so I will play a little bit of this game.
I will speak about the relations between Three "Epistemological elements" to clarify and ground our conversation.

Lets call the Organism (Whatever living being) -->O
Lets call the environment or Niche of the organism (If we are the organism we tend to call this “reality”) --> N
and the Experience of that living being --> E

and by Experience I will refer to whatever this living being is living in the present moment without making an initial distinction between "external" and "internal". So I mean by Experience the TOTALITY of what’s going on in the present. (You can even take a second to relate all this to your experience right Now).

So here we are, human living beings trying to understand how we do what we do, and how do we know what we think we know.

I claim that traditional epistemology or our cultural epistemological attitude always does the same thing in one way or the other, it always treats E, O and N in the same way:

- brings E and N to the fore,
- makes E something subordinated to N
- and puts O to the background by understanding its role as a means of making connections between E and N.

If we speak of knowing and knowledge, Doesn’t seem the most reasonable thing to do?

I mean, isn’t reasonable to gave an special relevance to what is said to be known, to subordinate our experience “of it” and to consider our bodyhood as a mean to do that? Well see…..

We also know that we do not see or experience “things as they are”.  We can claim by other means that there are for example a great number of microorganisms around us that we do not see or differences that can only be seen with ultraviolet lenses and so forth.

So automatically we create a distance between our experience and “reality” (our niche) that has to be bridged and epistemology seems to be the study of the steps that connect E and N  or our experience and “reality”.

N [Our niche or “Reality”]--> transforms1 --> transforms2 ……………>transformsS [Experience] -->maybe further transforms -->tf  [a transformed Experience]

where S (the number of steps] and  are unknown

then the question arises on how those processes of transformation are actually implemented in our bodyhood. How we embody those steps.

You can be more or less sophisticated on this…
But wait a second!

What if we challenge the framework?

What if we do not subordinate E to N and don’t consider O (the organism or the organic view of the living been) as a “means”?

An alternative relationship between N, E and O: The “seen” way and the lived way

(to be continued - more or less as in the The thousand and ONE nights)

Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Holes in Whispering epistomology15/03/2005 17:16:23Thomas William Heard
     Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology15/03/2005 22:36:42GSM
          Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology16/03/2005 15:52:45Thomas William Heard
               Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology16/03/2005 18:19:17GSM
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology & partial isomorphism17/03/2005 17:41:23GSM
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology & partial isomorphism19/03/2005 12:34:42Thomas William Heard
     Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology17/03/2005 02:45:33John Grinder
          Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology19/03/2005 12:07:05Thomas William Heard
               Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology20/03/2005 02:10:28John Grinder
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology20/03/2005 16:12:49Thomas William Heard
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology20/03/2005 20:21:07GSM
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology20/03/2005 21:15:23Thomas William Heard
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology20/03/2005 22:50:38GSM
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology - monism21/03/2005 11:43:06GSM
          Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology11/04/2005 12:07:14Juan Arce
               Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology13/04/2005 04:59:01John Grinder
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology13/04/2005 10:36:02Juan Arce
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology13/04/2005 15:32:44John Schertzer
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology13/04/2005 17:29:26John Grinder
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology14/04/2005 10:20:32Juan Arce
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology22/04/2005 13:20:55Juan Arce
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology22/04/2005 19:18:23John Grinder
          Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology08/07/2005 02:14:56Cad Moltson
     Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology18/03/2005 02:01:06nj
          Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology19/03/2005 13:00:31Thomas William Heard
          Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology21/03/2005 16:48:01GSM
               Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology21/03/2005 21:11:31Thomas William Heard
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology22/03/2005 15:57:33GSM
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology13/04/2005 21:08:50Thomas William Heard
     Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology19/03/2005 19:02:54Andy B.
     Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology22/06/2005 12:57:41Thomas William Heard
          Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology29/06/2005 03:16:21James Tsakalos
               Re:Re:Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology29/06/2005 22:16:32Thomas William Heard
     Re:Holes in Whispering epistomology29/06/2005 20:00:37John Schertzer

Forum Home