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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Unconscious did NOT start with Freud
Posted by: John Schertzer
Date/Time: 09/07/2004 20:06:06

Bandler makes shameless, and often very humorous attacks at Freud, but I don't believe he is representative (if that's what he really feels) of the entire group.  I've been arguing with NLP trainers perhaps for years about this stuff, and have a close friend who is a Freudian analyst, and have made use of a therapist who combines aspects of Freudian training with a lot of other things, including Ericksonian therapy.  In a section of Christopher Bollas' book, Being a Character, he speaks of a process that transforms *trauma* to what he calls *genera* (a generative internal object - this is object relations - what NLP might call a part, strategy, whatever...) that involves *free association* (very similar to the conversational metaphorical conversations in Ericksonian therapy which relies on trusting one's unconscious signals).

btw my Freudian friend is the best matcher I've ever met, and he isn't even aware of it!

Freud is responsible for the unconscious as a concept, as something that can be observed through language and behavioral patterns, that is differentiated from voluntary conscious choice.  It's been a long time, so I don't remember a lot.

It could be what makes the biggest difference between a lot of what goes on in analysis (using the term loosely), and some NLP therapy, is what John Grinder describes as his focus on form over content.  Freudian theory is possibly taken too literally by many of his disciples.  He was constructing ways of tracking patterns, and one of them was Oedipus, borrowed from early theater, which he overobsessed about and then later refuted.  Another metaphor.


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Freud's immense contribution to NLP06/07/2004 12:09:47GSM
     Re:Freud's immense contribution to NLP06/07/2004 12:15:39e_lie
     Re:Freud's immense contribution to NLP06/07/2004 12:35:07e_lie
          Re: The emergent phenomena within the layer cake06/07/2004 13:01:00e_lie
     Re:Freud's immense contribution to NLP06/07/2004 15:05:18Anarchaist
     Re:Freud's immense contribution to NLP06/07/2004 19:27:18John Schertzer
     Re:Freud's immense contribution to NLP06/07/2004 20:06:41JPG
     Re:Freud's immense contribution to NLP07/07/2004 07:44:02JPG
          Re:Re:Freud's immense contribution to NLP08/07/2004 17:54:58John Schertzer
     Unconscious did NOT start with Freud07/07/2004 10:15:26Thomas
          Re:Unconscious did NOT start with Freud07/07/2004 10:57:12GSM
               Re:Re:Unconscious did NOT start with Freud07/07/2004 20:02:05Thomas
                    Re:Re:Re:Unconscious did NOT start with Freud08/07/2004 18:00:59John Schertzer
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Unconscious did NOT start with Freud08/07/2004 21:55:40Ryan Nagy
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Unconscious did NOT start with Freud09/07/2004 06:30:31tish
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Unconscious did NOT start with Freud09/07/2004 07:44:00Thomas
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Unconscious did NOT start with Freud09/07/2004 20:06:06John Schertzer
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Unconscious did NOT start with Freud31/07/2004 22:29:37Robert Kamala
     Re:Freud's immense contribution to NLP09/07/2004 17:23:09Simon
          Re:Re:Freud's immense contribution to NLP09/07/2004 19:02:25GSM

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