To John Grinder John I was further considering your reply on 9/29 en reference to your Milton encounter and beyond "And then one day spurred by perhaps one half remembered fragment of a distant dream, stimulated by the conversation of a colleague, suprising himself in a presentation,the tacit becomes explicit,the unconscious offers up to a awareness a representation of something that person has been doing intuitively for years and presto out of the hat comes the rabbit of explicitness." John you went on to type "I am certain that my modeling behavior in modeling Milton Erickson was systematic with respect to Triple description" John after some reflection I have to ask where  your certainty in your disclosure is coming from? Another simple short question for you. Is it possible for you John when your now looking back at your Milton modeling days to see other informal models/patterns that Milton or John was using unconsciously  besides Triple description that went unnoticed to you at the Milton moment that you are still not aware of that could be useful to you and others if they suddenly became conscious to you? If somethings does comes to your mind John would you mind sharing with all of us here your new findings? After all we are all pursuing excellence here in one way or another. have a great week end John kc