John - You have described many experiences in that last post that would have been heaven to me. What an opportunity that was. Mind and Nature was by my bed for years - what better way to fall asleep than after a few pages of reading Bateson?  The funny thing is, I would keep reading parts of that book,  feeling fascinated by it, even when I wasn't sure if I understood a damn thing he was saying! After your quotes of Castanada in Whispering I have begun re-reading his work as well, much to my delight. Thanks again. Ryan