Hi Martin, I think you have raised a very good point and one worthy of further discussion. ‘NLP is both an attitude and methodology which leaves behind it a trail of techniques’ (close as) This was one of the doctrines of NLP that I remember from the first day of my NLP induction. I agree, attitude has a very important part to play, in not only NLPmodelling but in many areas of intrigue. And perhaps yes, what makes a difference in modellers is some of these attitudes you mention. Though I also agree that NLP could not have happened without John and Richard, they had the right ingredients together that the elements worked synergistically. On their own could they have done it? I would have to say no, not in the initiation of NLP. To me I believe it was as much their state of enquiry as it was the circumstantial timing of the events, the fortitude of so many elements culminating in the pot of existence to produce the banquet of NLP. However after this, then an attitude favourable of what John describes in WITW, is exigent in the further pursuit of modelling and inquiry into human excellence. Why? Because I do not believe a lame attitude will produce anything but feeble and poor models reviling in both ineptitude and inelegance. And perhaps nothing more than a content model open to all areas of criticism and failing. Models that a lonely buffoon with a few books in their lap could make up on a late quiet Sunday afternoon. I also do not believe that paying lip service to these states does justice to any system either. I suppose my question is, which attitudes are ones most useful for NLP modelling, NLP design, NLP application and NLP training? Perhaps an exploration may be useful. And which are the overlaps between each of the contexts, and which are the differences. This I think would provide a more elegant map than that of just attitudes for NLP or just modelling. Of course I appreciate that there could be many, and some individuals will find one or two more useful than others, but an exposition of them would start to create a landscape in attitudes and the overlaps interesting roadmaps, while the differences either boundaries or elements not seen as requisite to the formulation of an NLP map of attitudes. ATB Robert