Hi Martin, I agree, while in some sense it would be nice to model the modellers per se, but there is enough material out there that helps in this area. Also John runs his modelling courses with various institutes. So going to one of them makes more sense. I must agree with Take Place’s incansive wit. It would not make sense to repeat what has already been repeated by so many, though I do not disagree with the affair entirely. There are things to be learnt, but we learn most through our own efforts, and can be guided by others. The best modeller you have is yourself. It is you. The ‘know nothing’ state for modelling is your heritage. One of the differences that John and Richard had is that they coded it. But that is out there too. Modelling is what we do naturally, it isn’t something new or fandagled that can be bought with 5 litres of oil. But what John and Richard have done is to make the process explicit, a remarkable achievement. And I think to go back to where your last statement was, ‘attitude’ it is certainly a key factor, complete sublime and intense curiosity thrown in with unwavering intent and a drop of ferocity lime. But I think as modellers we need to find our own rich fertile ground to plant ourselves outside of the city of popularity and media hype and over crowdedness. Take root and develop what John and Richard have produced, to build upon the legacy by reaching new pastures, richer fields. It’s huge, untapped, only the beginning, just a…. whisper….. ATB Robert