Hi Cindy - Zeitgeist - only if you believe that interest in excellence in human conduct is limited to specific times. The problem is that no one to our knowledge has actually replicated the work the Bandler and I originally did - had they, we would have something more interesting to talk about. Stephen: there was no modeling of the commodity traider - what I did was go into the pit, have the most effective trader point out to me and calibrate him. At the end of one and one half hourss, I had detected the following pattern: you could determine which commodity he was considering trading by simply watching what he was paying attention to by noting where his visual attention was (with respect to the large electronic ticker tape running along the join between the wall and celing of the pit you could determine when he was about to trade by calibrating the travel (approximately 4 inches) in his shoulders. When they were down and relaxed, nothing was about to happen. As they moved up, he would trade when they reached a point between 3 and 1/2 and four inches. you could determine whether the trade was a buy or a sell by which leg he placed his weight on (if memory serves. he sold on his right leg and bought on his left). I never figured out how to determine the size of the trade although the trader I was working with discovered that his trades never varied by more the 15%. The trader I worked with traded just in front of the model and was quite successful. Stephen - elaborate on your comment about the relationship between productivity and effort. John