Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA
Posted by: Carmen Bostic St.Clair and John Grinder
Date/Time: 29/09/2002 21:20:25


So, let's be clear that when we make (as we did in Whispering and you accepted in the formulation of your questions) the distinction between f1 (the transforms that preceed FA - our first access to the external world) and f2 - those transforms that succeed FA as neurological (f1) and linguistic (and associated other higher order transforms) - f2, we are using those words pedagogically. In fact, all transforms will have a neurological representation.

With that caveat firmly in mind, the answer to your question is yes - beliefs, values... occur in the post-FA transforms. Now comes the interesting part for us - a theme that has not yet been well-explored: there are a number of cases that we have come across where a person has held a value or belief for so long and without challenge that it has consequences pre-FA. The typical form that these consequences take is strong filtering or attention scanning patterning that literally does not allow the person involved to detect anything in FA that is NOT congruent with their pre-held beliefs or values. They literally do not have access to those portions of experience that are incongruent with what they believe or value. Changing such commitments are a faxcinating challenge. Little is known (as far as we have been able to discern) about the specifics of the formation and deployment of such consequences - a worthy research topic.

You finish with the question,

"Where does the universal modelling process fall F1 or F2 transforms?"

We are uncertain which universal modeling process specifically you are referring to. If the reference is to generalization, deletion and distortion, then please have a look at pages 174 - 176 in Whispering where we offer an analysis that should remove any doubt about their value other than pedagogical (namely, zero). If you are referring to some other proposed universal modeling proces, please identify it.

All the best,

Carmen and John

Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
F1, F2 and FA27/09/2002 00:02:57Louisea Marnie
     Re:F1, F2 and FA27/09/2002 02:56:11JR
          Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA27/09/2002 08:20:14Louisea Marnie
     Re:F1, F2 and FA27/09/2002 16:16:34John Grinder and Carmen Bostic St. Clair
          ReRe:Re:F1, F2 and FA27/09/2002 16:33:16kc
          Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA27/09/2002 23:20:02Louisea Marnie
          ReReReReRe:Re:F1, F2 and FA28/09/2002 09:54:43Don
          Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA28/09/2002 14:16:27Michael Carroll
               Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA28/09/2002 15:12:45don
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA29/09/2002 12:30:57Greg
                         ReReReReReRerErRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA06/10/2002 17:10:38don
                              ReReRe:ReReReReReRerErRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA06/10/2002 23:20:09Greg
               ReReReReReReReReReReRe: F1, F2 and FA15/11/2002 17:38:18Don
     Re:F1, F2 and FA28/09/2002 03:47:43Carmen Bostic St. Clair and John Grinder
          Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA29/09/2002 00:08:36Louisea Marnie
               Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA29/09/2002 21:20:25Carmen Bostic St.Clair and John Grinder
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA30/09/2002 00:20:57Louisea Marnie
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA30/09/2002 04:09:16Carmen Bostic St. Clair and John Grinder
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA04/10/2002 04:06:48kc
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA04/10/2002 05:32:49John Grinder
                                        ReReReReReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA09/10/2002 13:32:08kc
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA15/11/2002 19:23:20John Schertzer
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA16/11/2002 17:42:01John Grinder
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA18/11/2002 14:51:00John Schertzer
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA20/11/2002 16:15:37John Grinder
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA20/11/2002 16:54:55John Schertzer
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA18/11/2002 15:47:35Jon Edwards
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA19/11/2002 18:23:11John Schertzer
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:F1, F2 and FA18/11/2002 15:50:29Ashley

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