John Grinder You wrote,"You know by doing that you learned something of value (which is Whispering,Carmen and I agree are the sole criterion - can you replicate the actions of the model does in p-a-r-r-a-l-e-l context?) Then you go on with brilliantly, "It is only subsequent to satisfying the criterion that we switch the meaning making process back on and begin the ardous task of coding the pattern to make them transferable." John your instructions above are a little tricky for me and let me explain how. In order for me to put a model on I need to have some personal criterion to do the task. So then I try on their actions (say public speaking). So I go in front of the room and I become my model. Then I watch the source again do their same presentation. I must say this revisit with my model allows my unconscious to re-teach me how to refine my original presenting model. John are you implying meaning making is a conscious distinction saved for reflecting on what I did after my first modeling presentation to find new distinctions that I did not know existed until after I performed? Or is reserved only for how I actually did replicate the model or not and for adjustment purposes to get my desired result? BTW John is meaning making truly a necessary conponent if I am getting results without reflecting(attaching meaning)? BTW I do agree focusing on getting the same responses as the model is paramount. Thanks You then write, If you are referring by the phrase "your observations" to the demonstration of the pattern than the criterion mentioned above is as mentioned above the replication of the models behavior. John can I politely expand what you are explaing here so I can appreciate your explanation more. Are you saying the more the modeler can comtinue to work on on duplicating and replicating and replicate the source/model the finer and more accurate the results become? good day Sean