Hopimind wrote: "Six step reframing is outdated and ecology is just like peace between warring nations.." I have those same videotapes and Bandler never said in a same sentence the words six step reframing and ecology. He did comment about the six step reframing in a specific context, and he did mention about ecology at another completely different context. Hopimind also wrote: "I have paraphrased, but what I have written is 98% accurate." And I say... how specifically did he measured it is 98% and not 95% or 10%? Did he measured by number of words? By the number of meanings of each word apply to different contexts? The truth (according to evidence) is... he paraphrased and he took two different ideas turn them into a one liner and placed it out of a relevant context. To me this is sort of OK... simply because he wants someone else to comment about these (distorted) ideas. NOW, this was enough for Mr. Grinder to decide to attack Bandler through presupposition and implication. You wrote: "the comment about a successful negotiation being a war about to happen deserves special attention - have a look at Bandler's history of successful (or not) negotiations." Excuse me BUT where the hell is written successful negotiation in the original post??????? And "peace between warring nations" = "war about to happen"?????? I think the word for this is DISTORTION, isn't it Mr. Precision Model? Or is it now OK to say ecology = successful negotiation? If it is, then when I finish a business meeting instead of saying it was a “successful negotiation”, I’ll say it was “ecology”. That'll be precise!! You may be right about some things, many things if you wish, BUT you seem to have put too much of your own (pissed off at) map about Bandler to answer this one. Besides, Do you really expect anyone to search every single negotiation Bandler has done in his life? Or is it only the big (public) ones the ones you are referring to? Does every negotiation at home with his wife (over 15 years) and kids count? Or are those not negotiations? Is the fact that those might not be negotiations in your mind the reason you are not married? Should we ask Judith how good are/were you at negotiation? Or should we ask the students that finished a program but you did not give them a practitioner certificate in Cancun because the promoter didn’t pay you the full amount? Did you negotiated succesfully then? Should we "look at" YOUR history? Leave your rage against Bandler for somewhere else. Keep your posts relevant to WITW Mr. Grinder! BTW... is this attitude of yours an example of the classic pattern of deleting and distorting information to validate your own generalizations? YOU BET! I am not writting... "I don't have an answer for this" so that everyone thinks I am not answering something while I suggest some idea inside their brains as you did in page 137.