Hi Stephen and Lewis As Carmen and I mentioned in Whispering (starting on page 231 - the Context of the Creation of the New Code), this issue has exercised me greatly as well. Lewis' point is well taken - the metaphor for me is rock climbing. There is absolutely nothing at the top of a climb; clearly, the point is the process of getting there. Suppose we have a case where someone purporting to be a well-trained NLP practitioner has some specific personal objectives to accomplish which by his or her own personal criteria are incongruent with their presenting themselves as well-trained NLP practitioner, I would distinguish two cases: 1. the individual involved is actively pursuing with his or her resources the differences they have selected as their own objectives 2. the individual involved is NOT actively pursuing ... The first case is to me quite congruent and a fair statement that encompasses all of us to one degree or another in many ways. The second is problematic. Please note that the reference point is the individual's personal maps and values and the decision belongs uniquely to that individual - as opposed to culturally determined norms. Thus I can imagine (and have met) people who were by standard definitions overweight or had phobias and had decided that these conditions were perfectly acceptable to them and I found them congruent in these decisions. On the other hand, there may be some value in noting the sound bit from so many years ago: if you can, you may not; if you cannot, you must! All the best, John