Forum Message

Topic: Re:NLP-Presuppositions
Posted by: John Grinder
Date/Time: 11/06/2002 17:59:51

Guten Tag Wolfgang

We seem to be in agreement that the presuppositions have some value for pedegogical purposes - they do seem to ease the transition from traditional ways of thinking about change and its processes to the approach, for example, presented in Whispering or any of the classic NLP texts. BTW, it is not clear to me that making such transitions easier for the student has positive long term consequences.

You then ask,

"For me the key-word is „congruent“. If one is acting already intuitively based on internalized adequate presuppositions, fine. But what, if not?"

"But what, if not" is a description of a state that each and every one of us has experienced as a beginning student of patterning, whether in NLP or any other complex activity - the beginning learning state. So what do you do - well, this is largely a style issue with one powerful exception. The exception is that until you are qualified to congruently apply the patterning, you have no right to pretend to offer assistance to others. This leaves the pressing issue of how to achieve some minimal competency before offering such assistance to others. In our training, Carmen and I are careful and systematic in pointing out that, for us, the initial applications of NLP patterning should be directed toward other people explicitly studying NLP applications - practice groups. Such groups afford the opportunity to practice in a safe context and usually emerge naturally from seminars where people are training themselves in NLP under the guidance of NLP centers. We suggest that NLP centers provide the stimulus to organize and supervize such groups outside the normal training scheduled. The second criterion that we urge wannabe NLP practicioners to satisfy prior to offering their services to others is whether the person involved can apply the patterning to him or herself.

Once these two criteria are met and with proper framing to protect the would be client, offering one's services to another becomes a possibility. Please note that when these criteria have been satisfied, it is quite likely that "one is acting already intuitively based on internalized adequate" competencies.

Please note that I changed the last word in the quote from presuppositions to competencies. The competency is the prize - the presupposition are, at best, a way of getting started to achieve those competencies.

Presuppositions like beliefs in general are ways of reducing experience through feed forward and are antithetical to excellence in learning.

All the best,


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
NLP-Presuppositions10/06/2002 23:30:45Wolfgang Karber
     Re:NLP-Presuppositions11/06/2002 17:59:51John Grinder
          Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions12/06/2002 11:03:23Wolfgang Karber
               Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions12/06/2002 16:44:07John Grinder
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions12/06/2002 22:54:20Wolfgang Karber
                         ReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions13/06/2002 13:58:28kc
                              Re:ReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions13/06/2002 16:03:23John Grinder
                                   ReRe:Re:ReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions13/06/2002 21:52:52kc
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions14/06/2002 11:10:49Wolfgang Karber
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions14/06/2002 16:10:41John Grinder
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions02/03/2003 02:15:30Ernest
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions02/03/2003 16:24:07John Grinder
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions04/03/2003 00:46:37ernest
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions04/03/2003 02:00:05John Grinder
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions04/03/2003 12:42:08Ernest
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions02/03/2003 02:26:27Ernest
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions02/03/2003 16:30:40John Grinder
                                        ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:NLP-Presuppositions14/04/2003 23:27:04Ernest

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