I love it! Carroll gets upset, and like all upset NLPers, he starts using the meta model of course.  He points out that it is impossible to have an effective conversation because Robert violated the meta model, then he, Michael, uses the word CONCRETE as his specifier!!!!!!  That is outstanding!  Michael said, "Proivde some CONCRETE suggestions for change"... Now, I have no problem with Michael's use of the word CONCRETE myself. I could make sense enough out of it to continue a fruitful conversation. I chose not to because I'm so sick of the way so many NLPers act as if meta modeling somebodies criticisim actually means something. but then to see Michael order Robert to be CONCRETE was too wonderful an example of the hypocrasy to pass up.  Is 'concrete' a very concrete expression.  Of course all of Grinder and Carrol's fans will say whatever they say; they might even meta model my comments, but I just end with a big thank you for one of the best examples of the not-so-hidden REAL usage of the meta-model in months. Although Grinder, as the grandfather of the model, also provides grate examples. ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz