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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: 1st and 2nd order change
Posted by: John Grinder
Date/Time: 26/11/2003 06:58:19


The set of 1st order changes are defined as the compliment set of the set of 2nd order changes.
The difficulty is, of course, with the lack of precision of the third of the three criteria on offer for identifying the set of 2nd order changes: addiction and physiological sympthms work adequately but how specifically does one determine whether or not any particular behavior has "significant" secondary gains associated. In fact, in practice, I do this routinely (and I suspect that others do as well - of course, whether we would agree case by case has never been determined. It is clear to me that my primary means of making that determination is calibration - now code precisely all the non-verbal voice and physiological signals in any potential client. In Whispering, Carmen and I offer some suggestions but neither of us are satisfied with what we have to date formalized.

The criterion is not difficulty to state: if the first order change achieved (without taking into account the positive intention behind the behavior being changed and/or without the explicit participation of the unconscious)in selecting new behaviors (better, states that have access to new behaviors) leaves the client is a globally advantegeous states and in particular without losing access to the positive benefits of original behavior (the one being changed) occurs, you hava a genuine 1st order change.

All effective (without later regression to the original behavior) historical examples of anchoring format changes would be one such set.

Hope this helps!


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Applications: 1st and 2nd order change06/11/2003 05:34:41Todd Sloane
     Re:Applications: 1st and 2nd order change07/11/2003 19:10:56John Schertzer
          Re:Re:Applications: 1st and 2nd order change08/11/2003 02:57:40Todd
     Re:Applications: 1st and 2nd order change16/11/2003 01:52:28Todd
          Re:Re:Applications: 1st and 2nd order change17/11/2003 04:26:24Cloey Z
          Re:Re:Applications: 1st and 2nd order change19/11/2003 22:18:41John Grinder
               Re:Re:Re:Applications: 1st and 2nd order change26/11/2003 03:45:03Todd
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: 1st and 2nd order change26/11/2003 06:58:19John Grinder
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: 1st and 2nd order change02/12/2003 03:50:19Todd

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