Hi E_lie, I'm enjoying this discussion. You wrote: "I wonder if he considers EMDR a little weird and not an especially good treatment technique?" and as it happens I have discussed EMDR with him and he said "More research of this procedure is needed but it is an interesting finding (I expected it would go the way of Silva Mind Control, EST Seminars, NLP eye movements, etc. but it hasn't yet; it has strong supporters and critics.)" I feel enthused by your addition that "the NLP advocates that I've encountered are for the most part, to borrow Ellis' colorful description, self-misled musturbators, who "MUST have this" and "MUST have that" and then act as if they've been short changed when their wonder cure technology fails to produce the results that they demanded (as if they themselves had nothing to do with the outcome elicited).  Maybe it's due in part to their goal obsession, who knows." This is the kind of talk which really inspires me because I just wouldn't have made that connection myself. Here is a something I read on the website that mark provided a link for. I think it pretty much fits the answers to my questions (to myself) of "what am I really getting at here? Why did I feel the need to write that post earlier? What is it that is rumbling beneath my awareness? What are my points?" and the quote is: "Recognize your biases. These emotional reactions strongly influence the effectiveness you will have with specific methods. So, use your "beliefs" in certain methods to your advantage. In the long run, however, try to guard against having unfounded biases or hopes; try all kinds of methods and fairly evaluate them all. I have noticed that psychologists who have a negative attitude towards some technique, such as projective tests, hypnosis, NLP, dream analysis, etc., have more often never studied or used the technique, rather than have used the technique and found it to be ineffective. The world is filled with skeptics and naysayers. Try to be open-minded and learn for yourself. Be sure your negative views of certain self-help methods are based on facts, good research, or your own experience; avoid having opinions based on comments from someone else who is also inexperienced."  I'm experiencing a kind of fludity and clarity of thought right now. It's like.. my thinking on this issue is more structured and more symmetrical than it was yesterday. The gaps are filled in somewhat.. Infact it's very like that gestalt idea of pragnaz. So thank you for that, e_lie.