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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle
Posted by: Robert Ballentine
Date/Time: 08/07/2003 17:17:05

Hi John,

Thank you, again you elucidate more areas for research and highlight others for thought!

I too, lean toward the Chomskian explanation rather than that of latent learning. After some initial test in ARP, it may appear that we are hard wired for a lot more than we think!

You wrote - "We were astonished to discover a participant (a physician who up to this experience had never had any interest Nor demonstrated any particular facility with arithmetic operations) entered through the new code game an altered state in which he was able without hesititation to multiply two 6 digits numbers together with complete accuracy "

It is funny you mentioned this, a number of years ago I became interested in Lucid dreaming and as such experimented with a number of exercises before sleep. After a period of time, I had the ability to be able to watch as an observer while fully awake, moving images in my mind that had the clarity, sharpness, focus and colour of depth of film.

That is, unlike normal dreaming or imagery during the hypnogogic state, or that of day-dreaming, the stream of images were of pure photorealism and solid.

Likewise during this highly altered state, I had within my head, once, the full playings of a large orchestra with a composition that I have never heard before (a quite good one I have to say!).

What is unusual about the second one, is that as a musician I have quite a good ear for music, composition, and instruments. I know I could not have created such a sound in my head consciously if I tried, or even composed it consciously. While I listen to Classical music, I tend to listen to modern pop music etc, and wouldn't have the first clue in how to create a classical peice . The other unusual thing about it was, that I would say that it were ‘as if I were listening to a full 128 piece Orchestra” in my own head. The clarity was stupendous, the ability to discern each instrument unimaginable. I could hear each instrument if i put my attention on to it, the differences between melody and counter melody, the harmonisation between parts and the differening rythems, the localisation of single instruments and their melody or the whole piece and in CD clarity!! (where was the tape recorder?!) I would have to say, I do not think I have the capacity to ‘consciously do’ what I witnessed. Yet it was there.

Witnessed, is the right term, I had no engagement in the process at all consciously. I was a witness to a process, albeit an unconscious one???

My thought then turns to Mozart, I remember the film Amadeus, in which he had been sitting at a table for some period of time, presumably without sleep attempting to finish his (if memory serves me) Requiem. From this it appeared that he were ‘listening to the music’ and then transcribing it into score, (please note the verb ‘listening’ for it is with this that the distinction should be made,) that there was no active engagement of conscious processes or so it appeared. From this again, I understand that he was ‘unable to transcribe fast enough’ what he was listening to, and that he could only barely recreate the ‘music’ in his head, there was ‘too much’. An overload and inability to grasp the full musical composition, and only the ability to gain the barest bones of it.

Now if we were to compare that to Antonio Salieri his aged rival composer, here, it is depicted that his compositions were that of a conscious nature, albeit they were seemed written with the attention of the conscious mind and not of one in the state of High Performance. That is not to say that any of his or parts compositions were not, or ever written in HS, but to, just allude to the possibilities of difference.

I use Mozart and Salieri in a comparative and narrative style, not as true models.

It is only the fact that I could not score music at that time that I did not. It also was a state that could be broken from, very easily. The issue of witness, I feel is an important one. The ability to witness FA, with no f2 interpretations, or linguistic mediators. I know, that as soon as, or any attempt to linquistically mediate the observance, that it would have ended the state. Well I must admit the ending of the state was in actual fact that!

Though I have not been in that state since then, it did remind me of your experience with the Physician and as such the possibility for the TMS machine to not be the only way of accessing these skills.

The two autistic brothers and their ability to work with prime numbers is pretty impressive. I wander, could the ability to use prime numbers be related to the fact that, if any species were to recognise the other as intelligent, or that of having intelligence, that the ability to recognise a series of numbers as that of prime numbers would be one of the first tests. (This is what I understand some of the researches at SETI would use to identify alien life). With this in mind as a hypothesis, are prime numbers naturally occurring at the level of unconscious, do we have the mental ability or agility to work with primes? Is this a hard coded circuit, like shape and form?

May the day swim gently


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Who let the Genii out of a bottle26/06/2003 16:55:42Robert Ballentine
     Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle26/06/2003 18:03:37Robert Ballentine
          Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle28/06/2003 19:20:08John Grinder
               Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle08/07/2003 17:17:05Robert Ballentine
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle09/07/2003 06:55:47John Grinder
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle09/07/2003 09:03:27James OMalley
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle09/07/2003 16:07:38John Grinder
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle15/07/2003 03:27:47Jesse
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle15/07/2003 20:11:14John Grinder
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle09/07/2003 16:17:27Robert Ballentine
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle09/07/2003 18:08:26James O'Malley
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle26/07/2003 00:47:27James O 'Malley
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle29/07/2003 16:59:02Robert Ballentine
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle30/07/2003 12:43:10James O'Malley
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle30/07/2003 13:07:57Robert Ballentine
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Who let the Genii out of a bottle09/07/2003 20:13:31John Schertzer

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