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Topic: Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices
Posted by: Todd Sloane
Date/Time: 16/10/2003 04:08:20


This is a great thread you started. Thanks.
I would like to agknowledge what you are tracking here...
I believe it will have great value for you, whatever it is. :-)

I have a comment about the paradox you identify (systems theory denies and incorporates C->E) and then a question...

Classical (pre-quantum/pre-relativity) physics would define cause-effect in a strictly linear way. i.e. as a "chain" of events in time. It would also be limited on the physical properties that it would measure to those of it's time period in history. This paradigm is the foundation (in phyical science) upon which Freudian and behaviorist psychological models are based.

It is precisely the limitations of this view that give rise to systemic models!

These models are in fact developed in response to "news of difference" from the world. In other words, the measurable phenomena that mismatch a strictly classical cause-effect theory.

However, the paradox of C->E is eliminated within the systems model if you redefine cause effect as something that is not time dependent. Essentially, this would mean that causes and effects can be simultaneous and also the effects can preceed causes.

In a sense (and this is my map) this is what the term inter-connectedness means in systems theory. Interconnectedness agknowledges a relationship but does not limit itself to a classical cause-effect one. This concept has it's roots in field theory which, one could say, is the foundation (in the physical sciences) for systems theory in the social sciences.

Combine this redefine in the physical realm, with the addition of an attempt to apply it to cybernetic systems and the "billiard ball" thinking of classical physics becomes almost laughable (except when it is useful)

I am not sure if this is helpful to you, but I am sure it relates to your latest post. Let me know.

I am also with another group member (sorry, name escapes me) in asking you to clarify what you mean by non-locality?

I am thinking that you are probably refering to the Heisenberg uncertainty principle or Einstein's "Spooky Effects at a Distance", but I don't know, perhaps something else. I am asking simply for clarification as the two possibilities I mention are both related to redefining classical definitions of cause-effect.

Now that I bring them up however, if you aren't familiar with them and would like some links, let me know. Spooky effects at a distance in particular would probably provide some clues in your tracking of the Dilts' phenomenon you alluded to.

bye for now,

Todd Sloane

Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
A question concerning choices17/07/2002 20:48:06Sarah G
     Re:A question concerning choices18/07/2002 10:00:48Carmen Bostic and John Grinder
          Re:Re:A question concerning choices20/07/2002 00:28:06Jeisyn Credeur
          to: Dr. Grinder & Ms. Bostic St Clair, Re: 'program','behavior description', behavior instruction'20/07/2002 02:48:46nj
          ReReRe:Re:A question concerning more choices20/07/2002 16:18:04sammy
          Re:Re:A question concerning choices20/07/2002 22:15:49Sarah
          Re:Re:A question concerning choices23/07/2002 15:19:35Sarah
               Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices24/07/2002 17:59:27Matt Ross
               Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices12/10/2003 01:40:47nj
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices12/10/2003 12:06:16Sam Castwell
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices17/10/2003 01:29:59nj
               Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices16/10/2003 04:08:20Todd Sloane
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices16/10/2003 20:47:36nj
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices17/10/2003 05:17:29Todd
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices17/10/2003 06:00:03nj
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices28/05/2004 07:34:31nj
               cause-effect thinking03/05/2004 18:16:33Amilcar
          Re:Re:A question concerning choices30/04/2004 23:44:23nj
     Re:A question concerning choices20/07/2002 01:07:23nj
          Re:Re:A question concerning choices12/10/2003 22:35:02Sarah
               Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices14/10/2003 01:07:52nj
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices14/10/2003 02:04:37Sarah
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:A question concerning choices14/10/2003 21:00:31nj

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