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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops
Posted by: John Grinder
Date/Time: 17/03/2004 10:22:59

Eric and the rest

Look - there is nothing particularly mysterious about nested loops and their incorporation into NLP.

In Transformational Grammar, certain structures have been the focus of study for decades. Within this set are a special subset called dependencies: in particular, the so-called nested loops are either properly or improperly nested dependencies. The properly nested dependencies are also known as center embedded structures.

Take the following sequence:

The dog ran away

The dog the cat scratched ran away

The dog the cat the horse kicked scratched ran away

The build up in the sequence of sentences above is an example of a properly nested, center embedded linguistic structure. It is traditionally classified as well-formed and nearly impossible to process perceptually - an example of the competence/performance distinction made in the chapter Intellectual Antecedentes of NLP in Whispering by Carmen and me.

This is one of the most frequently borrowed, adapted and utilized structure from linguistics in the context of NLP. In straight linguistics, it is important as it demonstrates that the dependencies involved (subject/verb concordance) in natural language can be separated by a potentially infinite amount of intervening linguistic material. This is one of the classic arguments in linguistic for what are called essential variables in capturing the syntactic structure of a natural language.

In NLP, you can find it used extensively in the structure of metaphors: you begin with story 1, midway through it, you make a transition into story 2; midway through it you move into story 3,... through n stories. You then complete the nth story, then the n-1 story,... until story 1 is finally completed. Fluent speakers of German will easily recongize portions of this structure as German sends all verbs (but the initial one) to the end of the sentence (clause) in the reverse order - thereby mirroring the structural properties of this properly nested center embedded form.

The psychological effect is to overwhelm the conscious mind processing mechanisms and the client typical enters an altered state which can then be utilized by the agent of change.

So, what's the question - your ability to use such structures simply depend on the discipline to practice.

On pages 204 - 207 in Whispering, Carmen and I offer a brief description of another application of a related structure.


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Bandler and nested loops 04/09/2003 14:53:29Bob
     Re:Bandler and nested loops 04/09/2003 15:49:37hey
          Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 04/09/2003 15:59:55Bob
     Re:Bandler and nested loops 04/09/2003 16:01:35Derrin Ferkil
          Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 05/09/2003 02:27:15Jim R
               Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 05/09/2003 03:03:36Derrin
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 06/09/2003 01:16:18Jim
               Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 05/09/2003 03:05:17Anthony
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 05/09/2003 03:21:52Frankie T.
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 05/09/2003 10:11:13sam
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 05/09/2003 13:08:50t
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 06/09/2003 00:16:53Frankie T
     Re:Bandler and nested loops 04/09/2003 17:07:33Gabriel
          Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 07/09/2003 20:29:06vee
               Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 08/09/2003 02:57:34Gabriel
          Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 15/03/2004 18:40:07Eric Robbie
               YEAH ! I'm dying to hear more about this !15/03/2004 19:16:12jonathan
               Re:Re:Re:Richard Bandler and his loops nesting 15/03/2004 23:32:55NY
               Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 16/03/2004 00:26:27nj
               Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 16/03/2004 04:17:57Tony
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 16/03/2004 05:19:03keith Harris
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 16/03/2004 12:58:20Tony
               Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 17/03/2004 00:20:31Robin Manuell
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 17/03/2004 20:43:13John Schertzer
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 18/03/2004 00:34:58Robin Manuell
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 22/03/2004 18:39:38Eric Robbie
               Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 17/03/2004 09:19:52Anthony
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 17/03/2004 10:22:59John Grinder
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 17/03/2004 13:24:00El ChupaCabra
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 17/03/2004 13:55:18Jon Edwards
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 17/03/2004 14:21:53John Schertzer
                                   feathering your nest17/03/2004 14:47:11jonathan
                                        Re:feathering your nest17/03/2004 15:02:48John Schertzer
                                        Re:feathering your nest18/03/2004 16:17:57El ChupaCabra
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 18/03/2004 00:49:45Robin Manuell
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 18/03/2004 15:39:25John Schertzer
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 18/03/2004 16:23:27El ChupaCabra
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 22/03/2004 17:56:28Michael Carroll
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 20/03/2004 02:17:56Michael Carroll
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 22/03/2004 09:10:47nj
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 30/03/2004 18:00:51Eric Robbie
     Re:Bandler and nested loops 06/09/2003 05:06:53catch
          Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 06/09/2003 05:44:28Tom Touseral
               Re:Re:Re:Bandler and nested loops 31/03/2004 02:49:45Chris W
     Re:Bandler and nested loops 08/09/2003 06:17:28InnerCalm

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