Tony, Evidently you haven't learned the difference between research...and modeling. but then that may never have been your goal It is a fact that John and Richard did model Virginia Satir plus others and then go out and test what they modeled, on or with people. and they were able to duplicate the results in some cases even better. and that's what they've always trained "NLP'ers" to do. its never been about "proving something" , its been about learning how people do behaviors and or skills.and teaching others "the know how". once you ACTUALLY learn how do this stuff, and have gotten lots of practice and RESULTS,then you might just wonder why anyone would do psychological "research".  its the difference between the psychology professor who teaches about Freud or Carl Jung or whoever out of the latest textbook in any college campus in American(or elsewhere)and  the NLP trained therapist who actually works in an office a couple of blocks away working with a client, showing them how to go from depression to enthusiasm by coaching them step by step on what to do MENTALLY different, after first modeling out HOW the person was runnig their brain and physiology to do "depression" in the first place. while you are content that "NLP doesn't work", people who actually took NLP training back in 1985 to the present are out the workforce(in private practice or otherwise), putting it to very good use. you can continue "to be an authority on NLP not working" yet just realize that there are very real modeling going out out there. Best Jim R