Forum Message

Topic: Re: a simple come-back
Posted by: Ernest
Date/Time: 07/12/2002 15:56:30

To Dr Grinder

Re: In your reponse(11/12) to my response on (11/12) 25 days ago-

You ask
"Where did you get the idea that I am proposing
that the conscious mind (or even more precisely the f2 filters) are of little importance?"

I say
Dr Grinder following some unconcious rendering  for almost a month I never assumed the conscious mind was of little importance. I like you do share the assumptions language f2 filters are very useful to keep our sender-receiver message system moving along.  You did my assumptions for me John. Thanks. Where did you get your idea of what I was proposing from? And what was I really proposing? Do you really exactly know? If you did know I would appreciate hearing how you arrived at your hallucination. A simple response WILL BE SUFFICIENT. 

Dr Grinder you go on to write;
Who do you think modeled and coded the distinctions you use as the fundamental parts of your activity?

I say:
How can Grinder make a comment like that?  I am just playing on the internet and Grinder does not know who I am and he definitely does not know what or how I do my activities and definitely does not know how I structure what I do daily.. Is this statement  Dr Grinder one of your finer demonstrations of your coding distinctions you use as the fundemental part of your modeling activity?

You ask
Have you ever looked at Whispering?

I say
Are you asking me Dr Grinder about your book because obviously I can look at the frame of behavior others like an activity.If you are referring to your book John YES I did look at it and yes it has a curious black and white cover.

You then proceed with:
did I notice the model for modeling?
I say
Yes I did notice the model for modeling but I have to say to you John is it truly THE model or just your model ?

Then you add
Did you notice the balanced emphasis on conscious and unconscious process's?

And I say
Yes I read consciously your five phases model but my conscious mind says  so what? And my unconscious is saying How can I make simpler? I do not like to remember so much consciously
(list of five items-too much). Yet consciously and unconsciously I know in your thinking there  is something there for me to LOOK CLOSER at your list but  INTUITIVELY I am always considering doing an activity for myself experientially to integrate learning the model explicitly and well as implicitly.

You go on Dr Grinder to describe: Phase 1 through phase 5.
I say how can I  simplify your list to three steps. My intuition says classify as follows:
1. Find the model
2. do their behavior
3. code their behavior and get easier quicker simpler and better and results than the original model.

Then you proceed in your response to me  with "Intellectual Antecedents" where you say
"Look at the Section Bostic and I offered called Intellectual Antecedents of NLP" where some of the key sources of how you presently and I quote "earn your keep" are detailed and their impact on the creation and development of NLP is explicated.

So I look at the section you called "Intellectual Antecedents" John and I applaud you on your efforts here from page 60 to page 119. Giving NLP a systematic baseline is useful. Of course again I question if this information was truly the key sources of impact or just refernces or Johns own take on his creation on how he developed himself. (Yes as a developer you have that priveledge)

John you move on with:
"Get a clue-perhaps it would assist you to note a model we all seem to recognize as having a deep influence in NLP, Gregory Bateson, pointed out numerous times in numerous formulations:
The logics of conscious(f2) and unconscious (f1) are distinct in fundamental nd irreconcilable ways.

I say
Let me give you a conscious CLUE pal.  I would appreciate you adding and expanding on your own thought here as I got lost in your presentation as you jump from Gregory into your own logic on the fundemental use and irreconcilable dynamics of the c-uc process.So you have left me clueless what you are inferring.

You then John state:
Further that any people(national group)or person who attempts to resolve this "esential tension"
by living either completely consciously or completely unconsciously will never produce great art.

I say to you John:
Can essential tension or the determination of great art be truly resolved anyway so again in my estimation John you are bringing up a "moot point" from my point of view. Art is art and tension is normal and either one never goes away no matter how much NLP you practice. Try having great sex without some tension in your body John.
And great sex could be an art form itself could it not?

Then you write:
This is my paraphrase of Bateson's position.

I say
yea and so ?

Then you add:
I subscribe completely to this position and endeavored my entire professional career to not only achieve this ever changing and dynamic balance personally but to design and implement programs that respect and develop such balance whether in our corporate work, training,
programs, etc.

I say
That pressuposition above sounds like a heavy cross to bear John. Why not simply trust your God given process's? I know like us all you have been in search of grace. I wonder where she is?

Then the big statement by John (the climax):
My personal observation is:
Westerners spend the vast majority of their lfe spinning in TIGHT little circles of internal dialogue and obsessive cyclic repetitions of images and feelings that have little to do nothing with their present circumstances- they are rarely present and in those flashes where actual present experience brings through to shake into the present, they nearly reflexively scramble to escape present experience (fa)
and seek again the masking oblivion of repetitive thoughts (that is non experiential experience activity)to reassure themselves that
what they thought the world was like before this
VIOLENT interruption of their cacconed existance
still is what is the world is like. They spend significant time and energy constructing and defending maps that are nearly ENTIRELY DETACHED from experience. They FINALLY succeed in positioning enough filters in a feedforward configuration that they will never again be troubled by experience as the filters allow only material to pass that confirms what they truly believe.

I say
I enjoyed your self generated hypnosis above John. But you used alot of generalizations. Should we explore them all specifically?

So then John you write;

I say
Doesn't the unconscious process's count in your equation? Every westerners senses are working. They just might not have John Grinders senses or criteria. Hey maybe we need to just turn off TV'S (f2-f1 social learning function)in the western hemisphere. That might do it.

We proceed with Johns
quote "Your use of the phrase running your own brain" is revealing. So Neuro-Semantics is the art of running your brains. Enjoy, you are demonstrating that you have yet to appreciate one of the most fundamental distinction required for
an intelligent approach to the study of humans."

I say:
This is interesting statement above considering your criticizing Michael Hall and he is not present here with me and I have zero to do with Neurosemantics and Michael Hall. I never met the man. Never care to.  A weak distinction on your part Dr Grinder?

But lets play and go on and run with your following concurrent statement in your response:
The verb "run" in the sense you use it is a verb that proposed a mechanical process:you run a machine, do you run a person.

I say your right Dr Grinder:
we do run and when we do we run and make a quick decision based on limited information sometimes we run into a dead end mentally as we mechanically "think" we know who we are talking to or who we are going to dominate. Where is the mind police when we need them?

Then we get intellectual don't we Dr Grinder when you write:
The ENTIRE POINT made CLEARLY(yea sure all westerners can exactly understand John Grinders  thoughts) in both Turtles All the Way Down and in WITW is that rules that dominate the world of mechanical process's(physics) are in significant part  distinct from the rules that dominate living biological systems and to apply one to the one is to COMMIT THE MOST EGREGORIOUS TYPE OF THINKING ERROR- A LOGICAL TYPING ERROR.

with your statement even though I do not understand completely as I am a westerner also so you can understand my lack of abilty to understand your thinking.

Next Dr Grinder you go with the following:
You suggest some sort of anti-intellectual bias on my part. Great God, I have patiently in Different Worlds (as well as other places) offered a detailed and formal presentation of precisely how some one interested might add to the meta model usefully.

I say:
I read Differnt Worlds a number of times and I did not see any EXPLICIT precision in adding to the meta model. I saw alot of words and emotion. We all already knew the unconscious is a key to creativity. Bandler has been talking about its power for years while you were off the seminar and book circut. Go model Richard you might save yourself some time John Grinder.

You then say:
I have repeatedly along with Carmen Bostic invited Hall to be explicit, sensory grounded and formal enough to allow others to understand what he is proposing- he continues top cycle fluff. Various people have with the best of intentions attempted on this web site to offer an intelligible representation (you know sensory grounded-explicit) of meta states- meta - how specifically? No one yet has come even close. Look to yourself Ernest and keep your personal halluciantions about me there as well.

I say
I cannot speak for Hall and yes I do have personal hallucinations and inaccurate thinking and inaccurate feelings at times just as you do John Grinder. I call that process you badgered me about in your response above
the process of "being a sentient human" and having a "conscious will." Sorry if you are offended as I have challenged your previous western cacconed existence here.

Maybe you might even lose control again here. Your response and nonresponse is welcome

Merry Christmas
(not Michael)

Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
note-able quotes 10/11/2002 17:40:18Big Bird(Robin)
     Re:note-able quotes 11/11/2002 15:18:03Caefu
     ReReRe:note-able quotes 12/11/2002 01:05:39BigBird(Robin)
          Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 12/11/2002 01:17:09Ernest
               Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 12/11/2002 19:06:22John Grinder
                    Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 12/11/2002 19:40:09Caefu
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 12/11/2002 20:49:16BigBird(Robin)
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 13/11/2002 05:19:14Stephen Michael Hawley
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 13/11/2002 13:34:15BigBird(Robin)
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 14/11/2002 01:10:44Stephen Michael Hawley
                                             ReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 14/11/2002 01:50:19BigBiird(Robin)
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 14/11/2002 01:42:20Stephen Michael Hawley
                                             Re Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 14/11/2002 01:53:54BigBird(Robin)
                                             ReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 14/11/2002 02:20:28BigBird(Robin)
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 13/11/2002 13:34:24BigBird(Robin)
                    Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 12/11/2002 20:46:21Caefu
                    Re: a simple come-back07/12/2002 15:56:30Ernest
                    Western minds13/01/2003 13:53:38maureen franks
                         Re:Western minds13/01/2003 22:03:42the count
                    Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 04/06/2003 11:01:32Robert
          Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 12/11/2002 15:12:14Caefu
               ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 12/11/2002 17:15:05Ernest
                    ReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 12/11/2002 21:17:08Kermit
                         Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 13/11/2002 23:52:48The count
                              ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 14/11/2002 00:07:21Elmo
                                   ReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 14/11/2002 00:39:08Ms P
                                        Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 14/11/2002 14:04:35The Count
                                             Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 06/12/2002 12:24:08BigBird(Robn)
                                                  Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 11/12/2002 14:00:55The count
                                                       ReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 13/12/2002 00:39:58Bert
                                                            Re:ReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 13/12/2002 16:27:05Mistermagloo
                                                                 Re:Re:ReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 18/12/2002 21:22:33John Grinder
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:ReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 19/12/2002 16:16:40Mr. Magloo
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:ReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 06/02/2003 21:33:43Wolverine
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:ReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 07/02/2003 06:36:24ernest
                                                            ReReRe:ReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 20/12/2002 15:32:54Don
                                                  Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 18/12/2002 22:35:09thepropagandist
                                                       Re:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 18/12/2002 23:32:09Michael Carroll
                                                            ReReReReRe:Re:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 07/01/2003 07:57:08Big Bird
                                                                 Re:ReReReReRe:Re:Re:Re:ReRe:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:ReRe:Re:ReReRe:note-able quotes 11/01/2003 18:41:53Bert
     Re:note-able quotes 14/01/2003 03:19:17Stephen
          :note-able quotes 14/01/2003 12:31:15Tone
               Re::note-able quotes 15/01/2003 01:14:14Stephen
                    Re:Re::note-able quotes 16/01/2003 08:27:03ernest
                         Re:Re:Re::note-able quotes 18/01/2003 19:04:37John Grinder
                              Re:Re:Re:Re::note-able quotes 02/02/2003 13:39:00Big Bird(Robin)
                                   new quotes 15/02/2003 16:46:53The count
                                        ReRe:new quotes 02/03/2003 11:14:21Bert
                                             Re:ReRe:new quotes 02/03/2003 16:33:50John Grinder
                                                  Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 02/03/2003 19:34:54Bert
                                                  Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 04/03/2003 15:56:34John Schertzer
                                                       Re:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 04/03/2003 22:31:55Bert
                                                            Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 10/03/2003 00:54:43Bigbird
                                                                 Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 10/03/2003 03:02:00Stephen
                                                                 Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 10/03/2003 11:47:06Anarchaist
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 11/03/2003 02:43:29Stephen
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 11/03/2003 19:56:50Antichar
                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 12/03/2003 03:16:26Stephen
                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 16/03/2003 13:35:23The count
                                                                                          Re :new and old quotes 16/03/2003 15:31:42Greg
                                                                                               Re:Re :new and old quotes 16/03/2003 19:32:19The count
                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 17/03/2003 14:59:55Anakin
                                                                                          Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:ReRe:new quotes 18/03/2003 04:36:01Stephen
                                             Re:04/07/2003 12:25:11Tony
     Re:note-able quotes 18/03/2003 08:44:10Stephen
          ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 22/03/2003 14:40:29Daisey
               Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 27/03/2003 07:09:28Big Bird
                    Re:Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 27/03/2003 23:04:11The Procrasinater
                         rReReReRe:Re:Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 04/04/2003 09:40:39Ernest
                              Re:rReReReRe:Re:Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 05/04/2003 21:21:32Stephen
                                   ReRe:Re:rReReReRe:Re:Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 06/04/2003 01:18:36Yewis Karroll
                                        ReReReRe:ReRe:Re:rReReReRe:Re:Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 11/04/2003 15:00:06bigbird(Robin)
                                             Re:ReReReRe:ReRe:Re:rReReReRe:Re:Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 11/04/2003 21:03:54Stephen
                                             Re:ReReReRe:ReRe:Re:rReReReRe:Re:Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 12/04/2003 11:24:24Pete West
                                                  Re:Re:ReReReRe:ReRe:Re:rReReReRe:Re:Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 12/04/2003 17:36:06Robin
                                                       Re:Re:Re:ReReReRe:ReRe:Re:rReReReRe:Re:Re:ReReReReReReReRe:Re:note-able quotes 17/04/2003 14:19:14the count
     Re:note-able quotes 18/04/2003 04:09:44Stephen
          Re:Re:note-able quotes 18/04/2003 15:54:54Thecount
               Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 19/04/2003 03:27:49Stephen
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 16/05/2003 04:09:52The count
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 29/05/2003 01:15:03Big Bird
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 29/05/2003 03:46:02John Grinder
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 30/05/2003 06:19:07Big Bird
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 31/05/2003 15:18:42Mary Swisher
                              ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 01/06/2003 03:08:41The count
                                   Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 02/06/2003 16:57:31John Schertzer
                                        Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 03/06/2003 00:37:11Nolan Mann
                                        Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 03/06/2003 09:31:54The count
                                             Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 03/06/2003 14:22:06John Schertzer
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 04/06/2003 01:02:57Mary Swisher
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 04/06/2003 15:02:57John Schertzer
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 05/06/2003 04:18:12Mary Swisher
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 05/06/2003 14:10:50John Schertzer
                                        Re:Re:ReReRe:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 03/06/2003 09:41:06The count
                              A rose is a rose (Gertrud Stein)01/06/2003 18:36:27Raśl Platas
                                   Re:A rose is a rose (Gertrud Stein)03/02/2004 07:42:57M. Jespersen
                                        Re: Meaningful Movement03/02/2004 08:43:16Pete West
     Phenomenology / Street Photography / An Aesthetic Way.01/06/2003 07:22:50Chris Jones
          Re:notable quotes.08/06/2003 13:46:13Cookie Monster
               Re:Re:notable quotes.10/06/2003 20:58:04Borus Badenuff
                    Re:Re:Re:notable quotes.19/06/2003 15:10:24Cookie Monster
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:notable quotes.29/07/2003 11:59:41Ernest
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:notable quotes.on chess players02/08/2003 14:22:06Ernest
                                   notable quote26/08/2003 20:08:56Pete West
                                        Re:notable quote27/08/2003 02:32:58Ryan
                                             not a notable quote but something of note 27/08/2003 10:37:42Pete West
                                                  Re:not a notable quote but something of note 28/08/2003 10:47:25Pete West
                                        Re:notable quotes27/08/2003 03:14:09Ernest
                                             Re:Re:notable quotes27/08/2003 03:22:03Ernest
                                                  Re:Re:Re:notable quotes27/08/2003 10:56:12Pete West
     Re:note-able quotes 27/08/2003 17:14:35Robert Ballentine
          Re:Re:note-able quotes 28/08/2003 06:12:00Ernest
               Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 28/08/2003 11:01:43Robert Ballentine
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 28/08/2003 12:53:41Ernest
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 04/09/2003 12:04:24BigBird
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 04/11/2003 09:26:08Tank Malloy
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 07/11/2003 13:12:12Big Bird
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 07/11/2003 14:42:20Tank Malloy
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 07/11/2003 18:51:54John Schertzer
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 21/11/2003 22:02:03The count
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 22/11/2003 13:05:06John Grinder
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 22/11/2003 16:06:58The count
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 22/11/2003 18:32:34nj
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 22/11/2003 18:32:52nj
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 23/11/2003 01:21:31The count
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 23/11/2003 03:10:56nj
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 23/11/2003 14:12:12The count
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 22/11/2003 17:44:02The count
                                                            Re:notable quote04/12/2003 09:49:48Pete West
                                                                 Re:Re:notable quote04/12/2003 18:32:18kc
                                                                 Re:Re:notable quote22/12/2003 12:35:02The count
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:notable quote23/12/2003 01:58:38Pete West
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:notable quote23/12/2003 02:06:16The count
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 04/12/2003 23:06:21John Grinder
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 04/12/2003 23:51:36kc
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 19/12/2003 10:24:37Pete West
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 19/12/2003 22:45:19The count
                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 20/12/2003 08:19:46Pete West
                                                                                     Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 20/12/2003 09:06:16nj
                                                                                          copyright20/12/2003 11:42:50Pete West
                                                                                               Re:copyright20/12/2003 14:05:41Anthony
                                                                                                    Re:Re:copyright20/12/2003 21:49:18John Grinder
                                                                                                         Re:Re:Re:copyright21/12/2003 04:37:14Anthony
                                                                                                              Re:Re:Re:Re:copyright03/02/2004 19:01:48John Grinder
                                                                                                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:copyright04/02/2004 03:22:11Anthony
                                                                                                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:copyright07/02/2004 04:13:18Anthony
                                                                                                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:copyright07/02/2004 07:37:33ZS
                                                                                                                                  Re:silently Whispering 07/02/2004 19:36:26Anthony
                                                                                                                                       Re:Re:silently Whispering 07/02/2004 21:19:18nj
                                                                                                                                            Re:Re:Re:silently Whispering 08/02/2004 00:42:33Anthony
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:note-able quotes 24/12/2003 14:04:26The count
     Re:note-able quotes 04/02/2004 08:37:10nj

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