Michael, Thanks for your response. What I wrote was an idea of the most generalised kind when talking about training and was not aimed at you personally or indeed any other trainer.  Rather, it was about my perception of NLP culture.  I agree that in order to learn about NLP some kind of training is required and as a business man myself I understand the risks that are involved in putting oneself forward to provide that service. However, I am simply worried that I meet many NLP trained people who never question or develop much about the process.  In fact disagreement is actively discouraged at least that has been some of my experience.  Maybe this comes from ideas about "training" which perhaps has nothing to do with the trainers. More importantly, for me, I am looking at people outside NLP or in my case NL Psychotherapy. Few of them understand what this process is about and ignore it. Maybe we are just so few in numbers and thats the reason why the professional literature doesn't reflect all this community activism.  You are right that my site makes no mention of trainers because thats what I want to get away from in this specific aspect -again this maybe more true for NLPt than NLP. As a therapist I would like to work alongside the mainstream of therapeutic modalities and add to the greater knowledge of the world and yet I do not see around me a community that discussing new ideas and re-visiting the old ones with a view to working with them with a broader auidence.  We have professional recognition due to the hard work of a small number of people and yet as NL Psychotherapists I feel that any kind of community is as yet threadbare. So, I am sorry if my comments, thoughts and ideas were not presented as clearly and as fully focussed as I would like - this is thinking in action I am afraid.  I am also sorry if it seems that I've taken this thread in a different direction from what was originally intended.  I could see that this could be the case. I would like NLPt to pace the others in this professional field with a view to leading them, eventually, to a place that is perhaps new for us all.  I don't see that happening or the desire for it either. I'll keep reading WITW and I hope to arrange a seminar maybe next year and open it to wider auidence than NLPt to see how these ideas can be developed and used. In the meantime I'll try and focuss my thoughts a bit more to define a more specific outcome - we may or may not agree with it but at least we -you, I, others - will know what I am getting at. I hope....... Martin