Hi Suds, I don't categorize opinions as "silly", "true" or "false".  I categorize them as "maps of the world", of which quality is judged by their closeness to the territory (the better the description is, the better) that means making evaluations as "objective", "with scientific evidence", "subjective", etc. All I'm saying is that there is no scientific evidence I know of to confirm John's point of view of a pure FA.  Of course John can say that he has a state which he likes to label "pure FA", and that I would need to model that state to figure out what he means by that (fine, with me) but still, I suspect his "pure FA" state is just another "modeling state", whith all the same problems of (unconcious) links to f2 (but one without internal dialogue and without immediate judgement).  For the time being, with a sceptical attitude recommended when it comes to "science", John's statement of "I experience it" is indeed not "evidence" that I will accept.  Given I have no benefit of proving his claim and John probably doesn't want to "waste" his time to do a statistical study on that, the choice is accept it or remain skeptical. When John asks what I learned from my past 40 days on this forum, I think that I learned why the initial NLP enterprise was "condemned" to fall apart after a couple of years.  It christalizes around the idea: let's not waste time on discussing points of view which "add nothing of quality to what we are attempting to develop" - Probably around 1979, apart from Bandler's divorce from Leslie cameron, this kind of attitude explains why Bandler and Grinder stopped collaborationg; they no longer had a common agenda which was worth their "common" time.  Today it seems something similar is going on: where I'm attempting to develop a form of NLP grounded in cognitive science, to which John Grinder seems firmly opposed as he sees that as corrupting "NLP as it should have been".   I agree with John that only in the future we will know whether his 2001 view of NLP becomes mainstream or remains one with little influence and the same will be true for what I'm aiming for. Patrick www.merlevede.biz