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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)
Posted by: Ryan Nagy
Date/Time: 25/08/2003 22:24:54

John -Thanks for your comments. I was in the process of replying to your last posting RE: Freud but I had not yet done so.

Your new comments:
"I would guess that most scientists..." you are distinguishing yourself ("I") from something "out there" ("scientists"), and that's where the game starts."

At first read, I more or less agree with your comment. However, in my other posts I was speaking about writing and reading formal scientific models and papers of which my vernacular speech quite clearly is not.

"Also, I imagine you are making a huge mindread about a lot of people you don't know and haven't spoken to about the framework they're working in, which you've already made with psychoanalysts without really knowing how they use their models."

Not quite. I've read and critiqued quite a bit of research (mainly in Psychology and Motor development)as well as interact (nearly continously) with clinical and research psychologists and therapists - those are the sources from which I am building my generalizations from. Go to your local university library and sample journals from a variety of disciplines - you can find the information quite easily (just as you
found it in my last post).

To be on a board that concerns NLP and answer questions from someone who takes Psychoanalysis seriously is quite ludicrous. Where would you like to start? The nonsense that change requires "insight" - An interesting assertion that has no scientific support. Or perhaps the idea that the "past" (whatever that is) plays some type of causal-role in a person's present functioning? (i.e. 18th century newtonian physics applied part and parcel to the biological world)Of course, since I disagree with Freud, I am obviously "in denial" and have some deep seated urge to sleep with my mother's hamster.
  My take on Freud is quite simple. From his clients he uncovered very real and quite disturbing evidence regarding the sexual abuse of children. He was roundly and savagely criticized for presenting his results. The society of his time could not, would not, tolerate or consider a world in which parents would assualt their children sexually. Frued's response? He came back with his theory of childhood sexuality and asserted that the clients were fantasing the abuse and in fact as children had unconscious urges to have sex with there parents. If this works for you John, go for it. Personally, I find it abhorrent. Literature on psychoanaylis abounds with examples. I remember a case of a woman who was raped in wartime. To the analyst, of course, the rape was part of her "sublimated" desire to be possessed by the men who raped her. In other words, "she was asking for it."

If you want to find other examples you'll have to do your due dilligence and find them on your own. Alice Miller is a good popular writer to start with. From her work you can find further sources.


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)16/08/2003 11:16:55Jumbo
     Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)17/08/2003 04:10:53Ryan Nagy
          Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)17/08/2003 10:44:10Mark MacLean
          Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)17/08/2003 10:52:16Jumbo
          Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)18/08/2003 02:42:10Jerry Freidinger
               Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)18/08/2003 19:09:34Ryan Nagy
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)18/08/2003 20:04:18John Schertzer
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)19/08/2003 04:06:22Jerry
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)23/08/2003 04:16:07Ryan
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)23/08/2003 16:01:22Jerry
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)24/08/2003 08:24:54Stephen Bray
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)25/08/2003 18:25:37John Schertzer
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)25/08/2003 22:05:46Shelly Douglas
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)26/08/2003 07:31:18Stephen Bray
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)26/08/2003 14:20:03John Schertzer
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)26/08/2003 14:35:48John Schertzer
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)26/08/2003 16:38:01Stephen Bray
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)25/08/2003 22:24:54Ryan Nagy
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)26/08/2003 21:42:09John Schertzer
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)27/08/2003 06:02:18t
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)27/08/2003 07:53:56Stephen Bray
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)27/08/2003 16:18:10John Schertzer
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)27/08/2003 18:14:46Stephen Bray
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)27/08/2003 19:05:38John Schertzer
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)01/09/2003 07:34:44Ryan Nagy
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)02/09/2003 04:11:05t
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)02/09/2003 13:54:35John Schertzer
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)27/08/2003 15:30:12John Schertzer
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)27/08/2003 17:20:05t
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)27/08/2003 21:48:57John Schertzer
     Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)18/08/2003 03:18:27williams
     Re:Dilts Logical Levels! (pseudo-science)31/08/2003 01:52:47t

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