Hi nj, In response to your "do it by numbers": (1) Neither am I....yet the psychophysiological processes interest me....and within them there is much of pertinence to NLP (of whatever persuasion). (2) You can apply exactly the same comments to NLP. (6) I'm not interested in the practice of Zen meditation as a spiritual, religious or ritualistic phenomena. I'm simply interested in the results these practices get, regardless of the beliefs that others may have in them. (7) There is no "one true know-nothing state". There are many varieties and many different ways to enter them. The "stop the world state" as described in Turtles is one such know nothing state which has much in common with certain types of meditative practices. You wrote "I'm sure of the truth of proposition (7), even though I'm not trained in New Code NLP." How do you know that....given that the epistemology of NLP as espoused in WITW claims that there is no "truth"? (10) If you read Zen Mind, Beginners Mind by Suzuki you will see that Zen is about the direct apprehension of "reality" without F2 filters (JG's terminology). You could read Zen and the Brain by James H Austin MD ... it will further elucidate for you the brain pathways conditioned by meditation suggesting an increased time spent in first access. If you are further interested then The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying by Sogyal Rinpoche will tell you all about Guru Yoga which has been practised by Tibetan Buddhists for hundreds of years. This is idential to deep trance identification and mirrors the first stage of unconscious uptake from a model described in WITW. All the best, Lewis. ps. It seems clear to me that many NLPers have a quasi religious fervour when describing their adherence to a particular NLP approach  :0)