Jon Cox you previously replied and stated "All of NLP APPLICAT-ION appears to me to be to be a manipulat-ion of abstract-ions." So are you saying Jon NLP appears to you as just a big nominalizat-ion? May I politely ask how specifikaly do you measure your NLP abstractions as you are manipulating? Can you 4ME also please denominalize your own  view of NLP more specifikaly on how specifikaly you do this? See I always was told in my NLP class of 100 years ago with Robert Dilts Jon NLP IS A METHODOLOGY, AN ATTITUDE AND A TRAIL OF TECHNIQUES.(another nominalization by Robert and the gang of a few) But then again where have all the new NLP methods, the attitudes and the techniques all gone? I guess those kids from jersi and san francitco know where...(say persuasion ------------------enginering).....because JG does not know the variables your asking for to write about...so John's adequate examples are NOT forthcoming I believe any way...but of course who am I to say this? Just another dude right mate! Jon know more and be more and all of you always stay well...! jb