Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime
Posted by: e_lie
Date/Time: 04/06/2004 13:46:27

Hi Eric,

You wrote: 'A simple question: wherein lies the "permanence" and the supposedly-misleading "identity" which the use of English 'primed' (or better, 'pruned) of the very TO BE is sipposed to 'cure'?'

Within the sender's or receiver's model of course, where else?

You wrote: "And what about APPEARS, SEEMS, and any other copular verb?"

The identity and predicate usage of forms of the verb, "to be" carries with it in the words of linguist and creator of E-Prime, D. David Bourland, Jr. "completeness, finality, and time independence", similar to the effect of the process of nominalization upon experience. Copular verbs do not invoke this association. Indulgence in "isness" has a tendency to bring with it the consequence of a rigid and dogmatic representation of 'reality'. Whereas copular verbs facilitate openness to possibility. As Bourland Jr. puts it: 'no structure can have precise identity with another or even with itself at two different times, for that matter. Hence we can categorically deny the validity of any Identity relation. And accordingly, any linguistic structure which conveys or assumes an Identity relation does not correspond well with "reality."[...]"to be" carries with it archaic associations and implications of permanence and static existence that we do not find in the "real world."' A 'pruning' of the "is" of identity and and of the "is" of predication might help to bring about increased (verbal) congruency with the type of epistemology that is presented in WITW for semi-obvious reasons. To quote Bourland Jr. quoting Russel (Our Knowledge of the external World, p.24): "The belief or unconscious conviction that all propositions are of some subject-predicate form in other words, that every fact consists of some thing having some quality has rendered most philosophers incapable of giving any account of the world of science and daily life." Korzybski puts it thus: 'The subject-predicate form, the "is" of identity, and the elementalism of the Aristotelian system are perhaps the main semantic factors in need of revision, as they are found to be the foundation of the insufficiency of this system and represent the mechanism of semantic disturbances, making general adjustment and sanity impossible." (Science and Sanity, p. 371)

All citations of Bourland Jr. were from his paper, TO BE OR NOT TO BE: E-Prime as a Tool for Critical Thinking.

Here is a direct link to that paper for those interested:

http://esgs.free.fr/uk/art/epr1.htm#24.

e_lie


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Applications: E-Prime27/12/2002 23:30:59Stephen
     Re:Applications: E-Prime28/12/2002 02:18:55John Grinder
          Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime28/12/2002 04:12:06Stephen
               Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime29/05/2004 13:36:39Richard
          Re:Re:Applications: E-Primehttp://www.nlpwhisperinginthewind.com/discussion/index.htm29/05/2004 22:33:21e_lie
          Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime04/06/2004 23:13:08e_lie
               Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime04/06/2004 23:32:21nj
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime05/06/2004 07:50:43e_lie
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime05/06/2004 07:50:44e_lie
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime07/06/2004 04:37:28nj
                              Re:Applications: E-Prime07/06/2004 05:48:18Greg Alexander
                                   Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime07/06/2004 08:51:21e_lie
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime07/06/2004 08:57:41e_lie
     Re:Applications: E-Prime29/05/2004 13:08:22e_lie
          Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime29/05/2004 21:54:14stephen
               Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime30/05/2004 02:15:51e_lie
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime30/05/2004 13:31:05That Stephen
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime30/05/2004 23:47:17e_lie
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime31/05/2004 01:25:13Stephen Michael Hawley
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime31/05/2004 12:04:32e_lie
                                        Re:Applications: E-Prime31/05/2004 14:45:51Greg Alexander
                                             Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime01/06/2004 03:03:37e_lie
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime01/06/2004 08:16:11Stephen Michael Hawley
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime01/06/2004 10:37:16e_lie
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime03/06/2004 18:10:35Stephen Michael Hawley
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime31/05/2004 20:08:20Stephen Michael Hawley
                                   Re:Applications: E-Prime31/05/2004 23:55:29Greg Alexander
               Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime30/05/2004 14:31:51Richard
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime30/05/2004 14:56:56Stephen Michael Hawley
     Re:Applications: E-Prime04/06/2004 11:58:43Eric Robbie
          Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime04/06/2004 13:46:27e_lie
               Re:Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime04/06/2004 14:16:33John Schertzer
               Re:Applications: E-Prime06/06/2004 13:47:13Greg Alexander
                    Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime07/06/2004 02:50:36e_lie
                         Re:Applications: E-Prime07/06/2004 04:51:17Greg Alexander
                              Re:Re:Applications: E-Prime07/06/2004 09:54:49e_lie
               Re:Re:Re:E-prime IS absoid.07/06/2004 11:55:04Eric Robbie
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:E-prime IS absoid.07/06/2004 20:11:04Stephen Michael Hawley
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:E-prime IS absoid - still11/06/2004 15:38:46Eric Robbie
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:E-prime IS absoid.08/06/2004 01:18:38e_lie

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