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Topic: Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP
Posted by: John Grinder
Date/Time: 20/12/2002 17:47:05


Thanks for the comments on Blindsight - if you have a reference to get other readers started on appreciating the distinction involved, please post it.

It is interesting to me that the foveal visual system is referred to as the "what" pathway and the peripheral - if you have any background about how these designations were developed and applied to the two systems, I would be interested in a reference. It reminds me slightly of the conscious mind's arrogance in naming the hemisphers in which language is representaed the "dominant" hemisphere.

Your description,

"As an example...I often lay out the various choices my patients have in relation to the management of their conditions. I do this conversationally, marking out in a subtle way in the space around them whilst paying attention to their non-verbals of agreement or disagreement. Then I ask them what they want to do as I mark out the choice their unconscious has already made."

is elegant - especially in cases where I have little or no idea which treatment sequence would be most appropriate, I routinely mark the choices out spacially and simply calibrate the non verbal selection unconsciously by the client as you do.

As you correctly say,

"Of course I have experimented with deliberately marking out a different choice and it's interesting how many people will actually go along with that! (Obviously ethics are involved here)."

I have had the same response - can there be such a thing as too much rapport - definitely. You, as do I, insist on experimenting. Indeed, until I discover the edge of a pattern (under what specific conditions, does it NOT work), I do not consider myself to have mastered the pattern. I assume that you actually note which choice the unconscious of the client makes initially, deliberately choose a different one and note whether the client acquiesces or not - all this is for the purposes of educating me - and then once that is determined, I typically return to the first choice indicated by the client non-verbally. I actually picked up this pattern from watching a diamond dealer on the streets of New York. He would pull out (from his beard...) a series of diamonds and carefully and slowly lay them out on a small strip of velvet, using his peripheral vision (better, as you know, at detecting movement) to calibrate especially the breathing changes in the prospective client. By the time he had finished laying out the series of diamonds, he knew precisely what the first choice of the client was. Interestingly, he would sometimes remove the preferred diamond from the array and note the response of the client - which was enormous (relatively speaking) if he (the diamond dealer) had read the client correctly. There typically followed price fluctuations...

My compliments for a piece of elegant patterning -let's refer to it as the Diamond Lewis pattern.

All the best,


PS Carmen just called over that from her readings and several experiences with Blindsight, she has the impression that the visual system is actually reporting the presence of objects (especially moving ones) in the visual cortex and that due to organic (or whatever) insult, the images never reach the level of FA (that is, they are present on the visual cortex but do not ever arrive at the area which is available to consciousness.

Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
Changing with New Code NLP09/12/2002 13:55:48Michael Carroll
     Re:Changing with New Code NLP09/12/2002 22:41:01thepropagandist
     Re:Changing with New Code NLP11/12/2002 01:33:51Louisea Marnie
          Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP14/12/2002 13:25:32Michael Carroll
     Re:Changing with New Code NLP11/12/2002 01:57:36Zig
          ReReReRe:Re:Changing with New Code NLP12/12/2002 19:49:54kc
               Re:ReReReRe:Re:Changing with New Code NLP09/03/2003 19:18:51Gary Ludewig
                    Re:Re:ReReReRe:Re:Changing with New Code NLP10/03/2003 02:38:57John Grinder and Carmen Bostic St. Clair
     Re:Changing with New Code NLP15/12/2002 23:20:13Lewis Walker
          Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP19/12/2002 00:08:31Michael Carroll
               Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP19/12/2002 07:52:01Lewis Walker
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP19/12/2002 18:08:34John Grinder
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP20/12/2002 15:38:00Lewis Walker
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP20/12/2002 17:47:05John Grinder
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP20/12/2002 18:53:27Jon Edwards
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP20/12/2002 22:16:41Lewis Walker
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP20/12/2002 16:05:26Jon Edwards
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP20/12/2002 19:27:45John Grinder
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP21/12/2002 11:55:12Lewis Walker
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP21/12/2002 14:03:10Jon Edwards
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP22/12/2002 21:27:55Lewis Walker
                                   Alphabet Game Online04/02/2003 23:38:37Rob Manson
                                        Alphabet Game Offline05/02/2003 01:15:18Rob Manson
                                             Re:Alphabet Game Offline05/02/2003 19:33:10John Grinder
                                                  Re:Re:Alphabet Game Offline10/03/2003 23:35:01anarchaist
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Alphabet Game Offline12/03/2003 02:32:47John Grinder
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Alphabet Game Offline17/03/2003 15:11:14Anarkissed
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP27/04/2003 21:04:22david
               Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP23/12/2002 22:38:09thepropagandist
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP24/12/2002 00:28:15Stephen
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Changing with New Code NLP04/02/2003 17:09:33tornado

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