Forum Message

Topic: Re:Re:Re:ethics
Posted by: Todd Sloane
Date/Time: 18/10/2003 04:12:58

Hey there,

Here is a late night attempt to respond with some kind of lucidity. I am going to go with a gut response here.
I find your question excellent and, at first blush, challenging to verbalize.

I'll refer to "finding products" here around the sales topic, but you can substitute "finding services" or "creating services" as is most useful to you.

Now to a thought experiment. If I were to take this idea to it's logical extreme and imagine trying to operate in a sales context free of content...

The result I get is the client creating their ideal product in their map of the world. In other words, they would create their ideal product in their internal representation each and every time. The practical problem here is, of course, that they won't actually have such a product that they can use. Hey, they might be really excited about the idea (map) that they have just created, but it won't do them any good unless they decide to go out and build it... Not too practical. Sales to me is more a process of eliciting the clients criteria and then finding an existing "best fit" product to those criteria.

I also don't think it is always ethically ok to introduce content in sales. Ethical applications of this would involve introducing content in service to the clients criteria and then having a "check" (i.e. unconscious signal) to insure that the content introduced does so. Then back to elicitation...

In therapy I am not attempting to find/create something out-there-in-the-world that meets the clients criteria. I am attempting to help the client operate more effectively in the world. This is accomplished through some operation that changes their map. Put another way, they are requesting assistance FROM ME to become more resourceful THEMSELVES. In this instance they are/have the resource that they desire.

With a product there is a tacit agreement that they desire an external resource.
In a therapy setting there is a tacit agreement that I will help them to access and utilize thier resources.

If, however, I introduce content in the therapy context I am substituting myself for the client as the source of resources, a violation of the relationship. I am manipulating their map instead of assisting them in manipulating it themselves.

Now some folks could say, "What is wrong with being the clients source of resources? So what if someone becomes a little dependent, right?" To anyone in that position I say go for it, have fun, but bring a mop!

Been there, done that, next!


Entire Thread

TopicDate PostedPosted By
ethics17/10/2003 16:41:45Matt Ross
     Re:ethics17/10/2003 16:56:56Michael Carroll
          Re:Re:ethics18/10/2003 01:10:09Matt
               Re:Re:Re:ethics18/10/2003 04:12:58Todd Sloane
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics18/10/2003 13:10:13Matt
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics18/10/2003 16:42:58Todd
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics18/10/2003 22:49:40matt
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics19/10/2003 03:56:33Todd
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics20/10/2003 23:42:57matt
     Re:ethics17/10/2003 18:26:11nj
          Re:Re:ethics18/10/2003 13:14:00Matt
               Re:Re:Re:ethics18/10/2003 17:01:52Todd
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics18/10/2003 20:41:21matt
               Re:Re:Re:ethics20/10/2003 22:38:54nj
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics20/10/2003 23:41:42matt
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics20/10/2003 23:53:04nj
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics21/10/2003 15:59:14matt
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics21/10/2003 19:51:25nj
          Re:Re:ethics18/10/2003 13:26:11matt
               Re:Re:Re:ethics22/10/2003 00:30:08John Grinder
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics22/10/2003 04:26:57matt
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics22/10/2003 13:33:34Tim Bray
                    Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics22/10/2003 14:44:38Eric Bollinger
                         Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics22/10/2003 16:09:03Lewis Walker
                              Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics22/10/2003 16:59:15Jon Edwards
                                   Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)23/10/2003 03:13:46Todd
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)23/10/2003 03:56:16carrie
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)23/10/2003 22:07:33nj
                                        Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)23/10/2003 13:56:46Jon Edwards
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)23/10/2003 16:35:58carrie
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)23/10/2003 17:35:48John Grinder
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)24/10/2003 00:21:58carrie
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)24/10/2003 08:27:37John Grinder
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)29/10/2003 02:23:16matt ross
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)29/10/2003 21:33:46Dan
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)24/10/2003 03:33:31Todd
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)24/10/2003 13:47:49carrie
                                             Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)24/10/2003 03:47:34Todd
                                                  Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)24/10/2003 14:32:05Jon Edwards
                                                       Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)25/10/2003 04:33:59Todd
                                                            Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)25/10/2003 04:47:06nj
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)25/10/2003 12:07:31Jon Edwards
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)25/10/2003 13:26:19Oscar Logieas
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)25/10/2003 18:38:44nj
                                                                 Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)26/10/2003 01:09:05Todd
                                                                      Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)27/10/2003 08:11:18nj
                                                                           Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)06/11/2003 06:12:16Todd
                                                                                Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:ethics (metaphor)06/11/2003 12:07:36Pete West

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