Thanks Jim, Michael and Jon, Michael: If we say that 3PP is, in fact, at a higher logical level than the others (which I coincidentally have personally maintained all along) then are we saying that M.H. is correct in his MS model. His contention is that a MS is a higher logical level. Further, John and Carmen maintain that a MS is 3PP. Thus, are we saying that M.H. is right on that point? Incidentally, I must have missed where I described the kinesthetic as different in the 3PP versus the 1PP and 2PP. However, whatever the source I do believe that the kinesthetic would be different as well. Jon: Welcome to NLP! I hope you will find it as stimulating as the rest of us who have studied it for the past several years. Now, as to your comments. The distinction I would suggest to you is to look past the content of the patterns you read about (ie-Supreme Being, small child, etc.). The structure of the communication between you and the world is the focal point of my question. Third perceptual position may be imagined as anything as long as you understand the structure of 3PP. 3PP, as Michael so eloquently elucidated, is that which contains 1PP and 2PP at a higher logical level. 3PP could be multiple examples of content. What I would suggest is to choose your content but understand what presuppositions go along with the content you choose. For example, if you choose a small child's perspective as your 3PP, then understand that it wouldn't be useful for understanding the content of the communication between 1PP and 2PP if you embue a small child with the cognitive development prior to the ability to verbally interact. Question for both and all of you: 1. What is the *function* of 3PP? (ie-finding intention in 6 Step Reframing, searching for resources to use in an anchoring procedure, etc.) It's function is not those content examples, but something more I believe. 2. What is the strategy one uses to access 3PP? How can that strategy be mapped (ie-a sub-TOTE)? What are the submodalities of the strategy? Would that strategy include a disassociation? I have my own answers to these questions. However, I am interested in your responses and Carmen's response. Let's continue with these... -Gene