Thanks to Michael and Gene for your help. I hope no-one minds if I jot down some thoughts, to help my understanding, and in the hope that they might be useful to others? After reading both your responses, and the passages Michael suggested in WITW, I think I had two misconceptions in my previous message - - I thought of 3rd Position as separate from 1st and 2nd (a detached, neutral observer), whereas, in fact 3rd Position includes 1st and 2nd Position among its resources - I was moving towards the mistake mentioned in footnote 20 of the relevant passage in WITW - imagining the 3rd Position should have no feelings/kinesthetics involved (getting too detached and neutral!) Things that struck me as important when reading, re-reading and pondering (in no particular order) - - 3rd Position is contextual - so, presumably it may be made up of different resources (in addition to 1st and 2nd) in different situations? For example you may want it to have different additional resources in a meeting with a business client than in a discussion with your spouse? (and perhaps this is where my previous examples of supreme beings or aliens would be useful, as extra resources to help 3rd Position look at different perspectives) - I had trouble with the concept of 2nd Position, as it seemed very dangerous to try to imagine what the other person is thinking and wanting. But then I imagined 2nd position as a kind of advocate or lawyer representing the other person (his "client") and putting forward their views/wants. This seemed to work better, as it allowed for the advocate to go back and check with their "client" if they were unsure or seemed to be getting it wrong. Does that make sense, or am I on the wrong track again?  :-) - it seemed important that "going to 3rd Position" (is that the right terminology?) was a process that could be repeated in a cumulative way. You reach a "sticking point" in a discussion, you go to 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd Positions, then you incorporate the insights from 3rd Position into 1st and resume the discussion. But 10 minutes later you reach another sticking point, so you repeat the process using your updated 1st Position, and a 2nd Position which has also been updated to include the newer information you've gathered from the other person. Rinse and Repeat until satisfied!  ;-) Gene asked "What is the *function* of 3PP?" - I can think of 3 at the moment - 1. As used in the example of Angela/Geraldo, it's a good tool to help you get past those "sticking points" in discussions/negotiations 2. The "Rinse and Repeat" cycle (virtuous spiral?) mentioned above could be a good "micro-model" to use whenever you want to have a constructive discussion with someone - you say something, they say something, you mentally "synthesise" the two and use the result in the next thing you say. So it's a model you could use to analyse and improve your communications skills? (you'd probably only use it lightly during normal conversation, otherwise there would be too many long pauses, but practice could improve that) 3. The "bigger picture" seems to me (and I'm kinda thinking aloud here) to be that the New Code places much more importance on seeing your Unconscious as an important partner in the change processes, so that it almost becomes a "person" that you must trust, consult, and listen to. So the Classic Code techniques where the Conscious acted as leader and "told" the Unconscious what to do, should be updated so that they become more of a conversation between equals. So, as mentioned above, 3rd Position becomes a useful resource to facilitate those conversations - 1st Position is your Conscious' wants and views, 2nd Position is your Unconscious' wants and views? ...and somehow, I think the repeatable nature of 3rd position makes change an ongoing process of incremental improvements (the virtuous spiral again), rather than a one-off "fix"? As to Gene's question about how to access 3PP ...errr ...that's a bit beyond my competence at the moment, be glad to hear others suggestions!  :-) Phew, hope that wasn't too long-winded and that it contributes in some small way to the discussion! Cheers, Jon