Hi Ryan Good, I was hoping you would come back to this exchange. One thing is clear - the vocabulary describing the distinctions we are attempting work out is highly impoverished - at least in English. Let's agree that the experience (FA) is the thing wherein we catch...  that is, whether we have an adequate vocabulary does not change the actual experiences. In this sense we are attempting to make certain experiences and expecially shifts between certain distinct set of experiences explicit. This is one definitin of NLP modeling: mapping from tacit knowledge (after all, we do do it) to explicit knowledge. Certainly in certain  contexts such as this website, such vociabulary distinctions would be welcome. I suggest that one amplification of the terminology might proceed by treating the predicate "disassociate" like the verb "transfer". "Ryan transferred the sensations in his right arm to his left arm." Thus, "John disassociated from 1st position to 3rd position." I suspect that this was at least implicitly your intention for suggesting "reassociate" - in a schema like we are proposing then, we would have, "Ryan reassociated from 3rd to 1st position." Now, unfortunately as you well know, there are vast numbers of the living dead wandering the countryside. These are people who disassociated from 1st years ago and failed to disassociate to a new full kinesthetically grounded state - they're floating - mildly teathered to and feeding on memories of kinesthetic experiences that they call emotions. We could capture this phenomena by using the null value in the phrasing, "They disassociated from a natural 1st position (to nothing/nowhere)." that is, we simply do not specify one of the terms in the relationship called "disassociate". There are well-formed sentences such as, "Ryan transferred the material by truck." in which the destination of the material transferred by truck is simply not specified. This issue would then become a issue of recovering the deletions implicit in the zero value in the predicate "disassociate", its missing argument - namely the "to" portion of the representation.  You wrote, "Disassociation, to me, has often meant "not associated" or "lack of/minimal kinesthetics." I think that this is the common usage - but I'll be damned if I will roll over for people attempting to hijack a perfectly good predicate. It reminds me of the hijacking of "meta" by any number of no doubt well-intentioned incompetents. This latter probably occurred because the term "meta" while ubiquitous from the earliest work in NLP applications (see for example, the section in The Structure of Magic, volume I, page 24 or the extended remarks distinguishing meta messages from paramessages in The Structure of Magic, volume II, part II entitled Incongruity, especially pages 29 - 47) was not formally defined by Bandler, Pucelik (who founded a training company called Meta in the mid-70's) or myself. So, let work this one out. I suspect that the origin of the negative connotations associated with the term "disassociation" was its sloppy use in psychiatry where I believe it was used as an atomic predicate and represented a pathological diagnostic category. God save from the linguistics of psychiatry! At any rate, for me the opportunities offered by making all this explicit are dazzling. It is the state counterpart of mythical shape-changing and, indeed, involves, given our (Carmen and I in Whispering) insistance on the relationship between state and physiology (The Chain of Excellence, for example, on page 233 of Whispering), such moves actually have a significant element of shape changing. There are two issues that require further development: 1. state transition functions (how you get cleanly from state A to state B). Carmen has developed, as you know from the work in London, an elegent and refined kinesthetic lead process for moving between 1st and 3rd position (and implicitly, although I believe she didn't have time to take the group through it, movement from 3rd to 1st). There are state shift jump strategies if you choose to use a visual or auditory lead that we (Carmen and I) have developed and tested that are also available. However, I can easily imagine a much fuller set of explicit and refined state transition processes. 2. Imagine taking a group of dancers, actors, Feldenkrais trainers... (any group with really refined 1st positions kinesthetics), instructing them in the full triple description (adding in 2nd and 3rd and the tranisition options available) and then exploring what the limits of physiologically driven state jumps are. Imagine! Finally, your examples of the "dead" limb syndrome you have encountered in your Feldenkrais work as well as references to dissapated youth activities are instructive. It would be very interesting to puzzle what total disarray kinesthetics might be - I suspect again that it is a state physiologically defined by incongruent snippets that come from separate and otherwise (other than the personal history of the person experiencing it) slammed together without any natural integrity (they simply don't fit well together physiologically). BTW, there is an extended and brilliant representation of the dead limb issue from a 1st person perspective by Oliver Sacks in his account of his experience as a patient (he is a physician and psychiatrist) after having broken his own leg on a hiking experience in Norway. You can find this account in "A Leg to Stand On". John